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The melee combat thread.


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#81 fett

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:20 PM

From the original PnP game: punch, kick and yes even picking up a severed leg were part of the rules (club).

Normally I support anything that brings it closer to the PnP and realistically, if your robot had hands and you were out of ammo, would you not try to do damage any way you could if backed into a corner? If you were in an Atlas and a locust folishly came too close... would you not take a swing knowing your arms weighs more than the whole mech?

However, my vote would be be no (except maybe ramming for minimal damage). Many mechs don't have arms and this would skew what mechs people would take and I prefer the old school idea that a mech is actually inherited s there isn't alot of choice involved (ie. variety on the battlefield is nice).

In PnP the other thing I did not like about melee is that high chance of headshots (1 in 6),.. ie an instant kill.

IF melee were part of the game, I'd want the following:
  • damage would also occur to the attacker (hand or leg, at least 50%)
  • mechs with "hand held" weapons like Griffin or Battlemaster's PPC would have to jettison the weapon
  • actual design of the mech would limit how it works. Got stubby Ostsol arms? good frickin' luck


#82 VYCanis

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:06 PM

well going off of the table top rules, mechs without hands or lower arm actuators tend towards having more room in their arms, have less moving parts to break, and can often do the arm flippy thing.

If that sort of thing makes it into the game, then melee capability should exist on the other end of the spectrum.

Aside from that all mechs can kick. even the ones with chicken style or weirder legs, somehow.

#83 Rodney28021

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:29 PM

View PostFoxfire, on 31 October 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

Honestly, melee combat was one of the few advantages that the clans had.

Im not quite sure why they couldnt do something like having a melee mode and allow for the toggling of melee mode and using the hat on a joystick for aiming melee strikes.

This is one thing that has always disappointed me with previous Mechwarrior games, was the lack of melee capability.

I can live with not having the choice of combined forces so long as they atleast include NPC type units that can be garrisoned on worlds and deployed by field commanders. I just think it's time to take a serious look at adding one of the things that allowed the IS to ultimately prevail over the clans, not to mention something that is a big part of the IS(Lyrons and Draconis especially).

Shouldn't you be saying "melee combat was one of the few advantages that the Inner Sphere had." Clan Warriors ahbored melee attack moves and didn't leave that option in their mech designs. I would like to have mech Melee attacks and mechs with melee weapons added, if the Devs can do it.

#84 Major Bill Curtis

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM

View PostFenixStryk, on 31 October 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

I'm going to be honest when I say that I will actually be a little let down if they add melee combat. It's in the lore, but only somewhat, and most of it is very early in the timelines. I just don't see MechWarrior needing that sort of thing.


???

The Ti Ts'Ang? The Berserker? Gurkha? No-Dachi? Nightsky? Scarabus? Valiant?

None of these are early --- how many 'mechs do you need mounting melee weapons before it's not "somewhat."

What? Are you some kind of Clanner or something?

#85 Ashla Mason

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:12 PM

View PostMajor Bill Curtis, on 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:


???

The Ti Ts'Ang? The Berserker? Gurkha? No-Dachi? Nightsky? Scarabus? Valiant?

None of these are early --- how many 'mechs do you need mounting melee weapons before it's not "somewhat."

What? Are you some kind of Clanner or something?

Yeah, second me for a big "huh?"

Melee has been in every edition of battletech, and it obviously wasn't something that they were eager to dump, since mech's with incorporated melee weapons have been around since 3026. ******* and moaning about it is like whining about jump jets or heat sinks.

#86 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:12 PM

There's a Hatamoto Chi variant with a sword. There are quite a few variants with swords.

#87 Chunkymonkey

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

BRING IT ON!!!

#88 Orion Pirate

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:33 PM

Pass...

I hope I never see Melee in this game, no mater how cool it might be. Somehow it will feel broken just like it does in every other FPS it is implemented in...

#89 Magneton

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:50 PM

Yea I doubt they would be throwing in melee since it has be absent for some time.

#90 BarHaid

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:54 PM

As much as I love melee, I could do without the swords. And the vibroblades. And chain whips. uggghhh.....

#91 Joseph Calvert

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

Melee was part of Battletech and I understand the dev's not wanting it in the game right off the bat. But to leave melee out entirely just doesn't sit well. I hope it is included, just not to the solaris gladiator point.

#92 Fabe

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:25 PM

Here's something I don't think any has brought up yet, hit locations. In TT punches always hit the up parts of the mech,torso,arms head while kicks always hit the legs no matter what the size difference. Now this is so bad when dealing with static miniatures but in a video game it might seem more then a little odd when a light Mech is able to hit a Atlas in the face and the Atlas is only able to hit the light's legs when it's big enough to kick its head off. So melee hit locations in MWO would most likely be sizes based which could cause balance issues when a Atlas actually can kick a light mech's head off.

#93 Alfred VonGunn

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:44 PM

View Postdiznoid, on 31 October 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

First, as a lore geek, let me give a little background here so folks know why I felt like making this thread.

They've said we are all going to be playing as Inner Sphere pilots, and Inner Sphere pilots trained for melee combat to varying extents. Melee combat was especially useful in urban environments, which PRI apparently favor. There were even melee weapons built into a few mech designs (see http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hatchetman note: sarna.net is an excellent battletech wiki, yall should use it).

So why is this important? Because the game takes place at the start of the clan invasion, and clan pilots clowns don't do melee at all. They don't practice it, they don't even build their mechs with the capability. Clan mechs are the gunboats, with arms that only face forward and are little more than gun mounts. IS mechs were in general more humanoid and flexible, with shoulder/elbow/wrist actuators and often had workable hands (like the Atlas). This gave IS pilots a nifty advantage, and given clan mech's superior firepower, they need whatever they can get. I died a little inside every time I saw an IS mech in MW1-4 with their arms rigidly stuck to their sides with hands pointed forwards; built on the same principle as a gunboat clan mech.

Now lets talk in terms of gameplay. Try not to hate me, Skyrim fans, but first-person melee usually sucks when playing as a humanoid character, and it would probably suck in a cumbersome robot. They've said they were making it first-person only and to make it feel like a sim, and that would leave few options for melee combat. They could make it complex so it fits with a simulation, but that would make controls difficult and need a ton of hotkeys. Or, they could make it so it's "press X to punch, Y to kick."; and maybe track the firing angles of arm-mounted weapons so a skilled pilot can fire the correct weapon while punching to put a laser into someone's chin, which sounds awesome to me. Throw in some nifty animations, and we could see some spectacular things on the battlefield. Simple melee gets the job done, and will keep people from walking into eachother and standing face to face in a "who can shoot faster" contest, as happened quite often on the allegedly much bigger maps in MW4.

So why make this thread? Because it seems extremely odd to make us all play IS pilots in smaller environments, including urban maps, without having any option for melee. So why, if we're playing the melee-capable factions on maps where we will inevitably be in close range combat, can we not at least some basic melee attacks?

Anyone agree/disagree or have more ideas for melee gameplay?


Smaller? Bigger MW4 maps? Huh? Where are you getting you map info? As far as I know only a single ma has been shown and that is the beta map. WHich they close to range fast to show off stuff... Everything they have written about tactics and role warfare points toward these maps being larger then those tiny standard maps that came with the MW4 game..

View Posteasy0n, on 31 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

The Faq already stated NO MELEE


Doesn't it says no Melee at Launch?? Not the same as none ever...

#94 Insidious Johnson

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:02 PM

Yes, bring it!

#95 Deathz Jester

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:06 PM

Q. Will MechWarrior® Online™ have Mech melee combat?

A. At this point in time we are not looking at melee combat. We may revisit melee combat if we can design something that is fun and does not compromise the overall gameplay experience.

http://mwomercs.com/support#faq



So I'd venture a guess and say eventually, and until then not get my knickers in a twist.

#96 Major Bill Curtis

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:24 PM

View PostBarHaid, on 05 June 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

As much as I love melee, I could do without the swords. And the vibroblades. And chain whips. uggghhh.....


The 'mech sword is 3058; vibroblade 3065; Chain whip is on a Trebuchet variant in 3081, so you have nothing to worry about for 9 years or so.

#97 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:28 PM

We can deal with DFA and charging until then.

Let the whiners settle into comfort believing that is all the Metal mech contact they will recieve...and then..BAM! BRING ON THE HATCHETS!

#98 Major Bill Curtis

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:29 PM

Just going to point out that melee weapons with triple strength myomer (3050) is one of the things that balances IS vs Clan matches; (Clanners don't use TSM or melee weapons).

#99 Birddog FAC

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:43 PM

I think alot of the melee fans in Battle tech are mistaken the hatchet man and the axeman and even the berserker were mech made either for the purpous( Beserker) or out of durress Hatchetman / Axman. these mechs are in the minority and if you read carefuly the melee is just mechs swinging thier arms as clubs... not a punch ... think of the old boxing robots game from back in the day... you also have to realize how little this would effect as yes a hatchet mans axe would do the same amount of damage as 75 ton mechs punch but it was so lightly armored that it wouldnt get to use it or would only get to use it once. also the designers would have to add structural stress and random crits to punching mechs as the hands were intigrated to assist with combat and battle field operations not melee combat. if you think melee combat is an essential part of Battletech/mechwarrior (except the Death from above and ramming) you are sadly crossing wires with Gundam and other anime. The melee in mechwarrior was an act of desperation which usualy cuased sevier damage to both units as the hands were not inteded for punching but moving heavy loads and haling downed mechs if needed so a punch that might cripple a light mech is going to destroy the weapons and actuators and armor of the arm being used... thank you for reading but think about basic physics even a tank gets dented when hit with a mack truck.



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#100 Daemoro

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:20 PM

One of the best times I ever had playing TT was with my 100 Ton, JJ equipped, Triple Strength Myomered, Mace wielder (with C3 for the missle boat backups). I even modded an Atlas miniture so it had a big mace in its right hand and gave it Braveheart style face paint..... it was a thing of beauty and death :P
It took a bit of skill to fire off enough secondary weapons to keep the heat "just right".

/sigh


Good times.... good times. ;)

(To be clear I got a house rule passed that allowed the extra crit spaces to spill over into the torso... "if AC20's can do it why not a Mace that doesn't need to load ammo or have any moving parts?")

Edited by Daemoro, 05 June 2012 - 04:25 PM.






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