552 replies to this topic

[Windies]

I'm pretty sure nobody at this point takes anything Belorion has to say seriously anymore. He's like one of those clowns in the circus that tries to take the kids attention away from the big elephant ******** everywhere....

[Belorion]

Nekki Basara, on 14 August 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I said "more than". Jesus christ, are you even capable of reading? Understanding basic binary mathematical operators? What is it that you just can't seem to grasp that I did not say what you are trying to convince us I said?

So if it was the dominant meta that was ruling the drops there should be tons of threads from past time periods calling for its nerf...

I have always been one to admin I am wrong when presented with proof to the contrary. If you can show me where people complained about 2PPC+Gauss being the dominant build I will admit I am wrong... even then it would make me mistaken, not a liar, and certainly not a pathological liar.

All or nothing thinking is its own form of cognitive distortion.

Windies, on 14 August 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure nobody at this point takes anything Belorion has to say seriously anymore. He's like one of those clowns in the circus that tries to take the kids attention away from the big elephant ******** everywhere....

Its amazing the rapidity with which you people resort to ad hominem attacks.

[Nekki Basara]

Take a look.

ETA: I find it funny how quickly he has resorted to calling us all "you people" as if proving him wrong turns us into some form of detestable minority. Sorry Windies, but you're a goon now, whoever you were before is gone.

Edited by Nekki Basara, 14 August 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Chronojam]

To add to Nekki's reference, keep in mind the concept for 2PPC 1Gauss is over a year old. It was crafted mostly because of its incredible ease-of-use and its applicability to many chassis variants, such as that thread that investigated using it on a Hunchback -- but it wasn't particularly viable and fell by the wayside. It was still an effective build as of November, but it had strong competition from other builds (which have since all been made less appealing and less effective).

As of February of this year, as many of us have pointed out, various buffs to the sniping metagame made the viability of 2PPC 1Gauss skyrocket and it entered the public consciousness and it began to be advertised as the go-to sniper build. By April, the complaints really began to reach critical mass, with frequent posts about it. The strength of the #2ppc1gauss fitting has grown with every month, while other builds are penalized and pushed to worthlessness.

[Belorion]

Nekki Basara, on 14 August 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Take a look.

Poptart is not the same as a Cataphract with 2PPC and 1Guass. Many mechs with a variety of loadouts fall under that category.

[Chronojam]

Belorion, on 14 August 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Its amazing the rapidity with which you people resort to ad hominem attacks.

According to Flackcheck.org,

Quote

A label derived from the Latin meaning “to the man” or “to the person,” an ad hominem argument focuses on discrediting the arguer rather than the argument. In its illegitimate form, ad hominem responds to an argument with name calling instead of engagement with the matter at hand. Importantly, not all attacks on the person are problematic. It is possible to discredit the arguer in a way that effectively undercuts his argument. For example, one could challenge a speaker's credibility and case by showing that it is based on intentional deception (and the person “dishonest” or “a liar”). Those using this form of ad hominem need to assume the burden of showing how the attack both addresses and undermines the opponent's argument.

Pointing out your lies is intended to reveal the fallacious and baseless nature of your arguments, not intended to serve as insubstantial namecalling and not intended to be insulting. You're not credible and have been proven an untrustworthy source, which is what makes the difference here. I would not label it a "personal attack" to attack your arguments or sources, because the veracity of your statements is suspect -- not your person.

It is simply an unfortunate side effect that telling lies will make people make other assumptions about your character, not just your positions on balance.

[Nekki Basara]

Belorion, on 14 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Poptart is not the same as a Cataphract with 2PPC and 1Guass. Many mechs with a variety of loadouts fall under that category.

Describe one please. Describe any single mech at all which fits the term "poptart" and has not been soleley comprised of a combination of PPC and Gauss since MW4's darkest days.

[Chronojam]

Belorion, on 14 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Poptart is not the same as a Cataphract with 2PPC and 1Guass. Many mechs with a variety of loadouts fall under that category.

The long-range high-alpha metagame, and jumpsniping itself, are best demonstrated by #2ppc1gauss and this has been established for quite some time. Please stop being so deceptive and evasive, it harms the level of discourse.

[Belorion]

Chronojam, on 14 August 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Pointing out your lies is intended to reveal the fallacious and baseless nature of your arguments, not intended to serve as insubstantial namecalling and not intended to be insulting. You're not credible and have been proven an untrustworthy source, which is what makes the difference here. I would not label it a "personal attack" to attack your arguments or sources, because the veracity of your statements is suspect -- not your person.

It is simply an unfortunate side effect that telling lies will make people make other assumptions about your character, not just your positions on balance.

I was not quoting someone calling me a liar btw. Which makes the premise of your statement false.

Chronojam, on 14 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

with frequent posts about it.

That thread is the only one that mentions the build as a problem, and that is only from one or two posters. The rest of the posts have no consensus about it being a problem.

The earlier threads are disusing the merits of running different builds where a few posts suggest the 2PPC + 1 Gauss as a possible build. Far from the QQ's of nerf this that we saw surrounding the other builds.

Chronojam, on 14 August 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

The long-range high-alpha metagame, and jumpsniping itself, are best demonstrated by #2ppc1gauss and this has been established for quite some time. Please stop being so deceptive and evasive, it harms the level of discourse.

I never claimed anything about poptarts, or 3ppc + Guass, 2gauss + 1PPC, dual gauss, 4 ppc or any other such builds.

There will always be some form of high alpha sniping. If there weren't we would all be brawling (unless LRMs happen to be OP at the time) and that would be every bit as boring as the long range meta.

and I run mostly brawlers.

[Chronojam]

I'm pretty sure I was throwing some extra information in to go along with Nekki's post, and when you say things like "Its amazing the rapidity with which you people resort to ad hominem attacks." you should expect a reply from [us] people. Unless you'd like to clarify which people you meant, because it sounded an awful lot like you meant those of us who were talking to you here. Maybe you meant some folks in another thread.

[Belorion]

Nekki Basara, on 14 August 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I said "more than". Jesus christ, are you even capable of reading? Understanding basic binary mathematical operators? What is it that you just can't seem to grasp that I did not say what you are trying to convince us I said?

Few ~ 3...

x > few

x {3, ..., ∞}

Be more specific about your math.

[Windies]

My statement was far from a personal attack and was more a simile for your arguments purpose than any personal attack against you as a person.

[Belorion]

Chronojam, on 14 August 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure I was throwing some extra information in to go along with Nekki's post, and when you say things like "Its amazing the rapidity with which you people resort to ad hominem attacks." you should expect a reply from [us] people. Unless you'd like to clarify which people you meant, because it sounded an awful lot like you meant those of us who were talking to you here. Maybe you meant some folks in another thread.

I meant by "you people" the negative crowd in general. I meant in the forums, not specific to the immediate conversation.

However, now that you mention it, I am pretty sure pathological liar isn't included in your ad hominem exemption. Esp. since there is nothing to prove such an accusation. You would have to have proof that I was indeed a pathological liar to be able to use it without it falling under the ad hominem exemption. Proof well beyond just the simple fact of I have a differing opinion from you.

[Nekki Basara]

Belorion, on 14 August 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Few ~ 3...

x > few

x {3, ..., ∞}

Be more specific about your math.

You do not address a single point raised against your arguements at all, let alone directly. Your posts are bad. This is not to say that you are a bad poster, but it is a thing which might be infered from the quality of your posts.

You cannot possibly be specific about a non-specific term meaning "a small amount", which is by definition non-specific. It exists solely to express an uncertainty of specificity, yet distinctly lower than the sum possible total of the given variable. That was a bad post. Especially since I did not use the word "few" anywhere in regards to the regularity of meeting the relevant build, but even more so because you distinctly demonstrated your understanding of the "more than" concept, proving that you deliberately ignored it earlier in an attempt to misrepresent my position to back up your own. Thus, we can conclude, that your post was a falsehood. Further from this, a liar being defined as one who lies, you may be deduced to be such. Please stop posting bad posts, because they are bad and it is unhelpful.

[Belorion]

Windies, on 14 August 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

My statement was far from a personal attack and was more a simile for your arguments purpose than any personal attack against you as a person.

Interesting... well if that is indeed the way you intended it, perhaps you should look at your delivery objectively and see how others may perceive it as an attack.

[Chronojam]

Belorion, on 14 August 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Few ~ 3...

x > few

x {3, ..., ∞}

Be more specific about your math.

You're just playing semantics and making yourself look foolish by assigning arbitrary values to abstract concepts as if they were mathematical constants. You are your own strawman.

[Windies]

Belorion, on 14 August 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Interesting... well if that is indeed the way you intended it, perhaps you should look at your delivery objectively and see how others may perceive it as an attack.

Perhaps you should look at your interpretation of the entirety of the English language and note a bias of anything viewed negatively as being "ad hominem".

[Belorion]

Chronojam, on 14 August 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

You're just playing semantics and making yourself look foolish by assigning arbitrary values to abstract concepts as if they were mathematical constants. You are your own strawman.

You are correct in pointing out the flaw in my statement. Your actual quote is

Quote

I tended to see more than my share of 2PPC/Gauss platforms

I miss remembered it. My apologies.

[Chronojam]

So, man, is PGI ever boned once this thing launches, unless they have a super-secret internal build that's all sunshine and rainbows with impeccable balancing. Hopefully we'll be able to look back in three months to "shows great improvement" reviews instead of yet another F2P post-mortem.

[Windies]

Chronojam, on 14 August 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

So, man, is PGI ever boned once this thing launches, unless they have a super-secret internal build that's all sunshine and rainbows with impeccable balancing. Hopefully we'll be able to look back in three months to "shows great improvement" reviews instead of yet another F2P post-mortem.

You know they're like 500 builds ahead in internal development right?