18 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
scroll down to the heat penalty chart.

http://mwomercs.com/...cale-the-maths/
(SRMs have not been updated in this one)

all weapons within the same group have the exact same heat penalty.


Hmm... "if a player fires a LRM20, a LRM15, a LRM10 together, the numbers used to calculate heat values will be from the LRM20."
how is that possible now that the numbers are all the same.

LRM-20 2 2.8
LRM-15 2 2.8
LRM-10 2 2.8



Didn't paul say that they would only have the same penalty when linked?
They couldn't figure out a way to add linked penalties to work so they made them all the same

Edited by Tennex, 06 August 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Ralgas]

This again.... Is that how it works live or is that just based of data mined client info thats been wrong before?

[Tennex]

Ralgas, on 06 August 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

This again.... Is that how it works live or is that just based of data mined client info thats been wrong before?

read the dev post, the chart has been updated by paul himself. (SRM4/6 are different, but it says they are both 3 in the patch notes)
meaning all linked weapons have a shared max alpha regardless of damage output

[ObsidianSpectre]

I'm glad they finally nerfed those 4-SRM2 mechs. Those things have dominated the battlefield for too long!

[Tie Ma]

this has clearly gotten out of hand, they've lost control of their own monster,

looking at the updated chart, none of those values make any intuitive sense.

[TOGSolid]

Tennex, on 06 August 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
scroll down to the heat penalty chart.

http://mwomercs.com/...cale-the-maths/
(SRMs have not been updated in this one)

all weapons within the same group have the exact same max alpha.

Congratulations, you made a thread about something that we've known for a long time and even linked to the thread where Paul tells us straight up that this would be how the group alphas would work.

Good job Columbo, you cracked the case.

Tie Ma, on 06 August 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

this has clearly gotten out of hand, they've lost control of their own monster,

looking at the updated chart, none of those values make any intuitive sense.

Let's be accurate here: Nothing about heat scaling makes any intuitive sense.

Edited by TOGSolid, 06 August 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Tennex]

TOGSolid, on 06 August 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Congratulations, you made a thread about something that we've known for a long time and even linked to the thread where Paul tells us straight up that this would be how the group alphas would work.

Good job Columbo, you cracked the case.



Let's be accurate here: Nothing about heat scaling makes any intuitive sense.

no he said, linked weapons would adopt the penalty of the weapon with the highest heat. Not that they would all be the same from the getgo. How will linked weapons adopt the highest penalty now, if they all start off with the same heat penalty?


Hmm... "if a player fires a LRM20, a LRM15, a LRM10 together, the numbers used to calculate heat values will be from the LRM20."
Tell me how that is possible now that the numbers are all the same.

LRM-20 2 2.8
LRM-15 2 2.8
LRM-10 2 2.8


you clearly did not understand the system

Edited by Tennex, 06 August 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Tie Ma]

Tennex, on 06 August 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

no he said, linked weapons would adopt the penalty of the weapon with the highest heat. Not that they would all be the same from the getgo. How will linked weapons adopt the highest penalty now, if they all start off with the same heat penalty?


Hmm... "if a player fires a LRM20, a LRM15, a LRM10 together, the numbers used to calculate heat values will be from the LRM20."
Tell me how that is possible now that the numbers are all the same.

LRM-20 2 2.8
LRM-15 2 2.8
LRM-10 2 2.8


you clearly did not understand the system

wow that's really dumb. they could at least have it do what it said it would.

[MustrumRidcully]

Tennex, on 06 August 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

no he said, linked weapons would adopt the penalty of the weapon with the highest heat. Not that they would all be the same from the getgo. How will linked weapons adopt the highest penalty now, if they all start off with the same heat penalty?


Hmm... "if a player fires a LRM20, a LRM15, a LRM10 together, the numbers used to calculate heat values will be from the LRM20."
Tell me how that is possible now that the numbers are all the same.

LRM-20 2 2.8
LRM-15 2 2.8
LRM-10 2 2.8


you clearly did not understand the system

Well, it simple, if everything is equally high, then the highest can be any of these 3 identical values.

It's a very, very weird way to describe it. It's probable a mathmagical invocation or some kind that it requires such an arcane description.

[Roadbuster]

I don't get the point...no wait...

...

...nope, don't get it.


The multiplier is the same for these weapons depending on how many you fire.
You can fire 2 LRM20 without penalty, or 2 LRM15 or 1 LRM10 and 1 LRM20.
If you fire 3 LRM10, LRM15 or LRM20 or a mix of them, the heat penalty multiplier kicks in.
What changes is the base heat used for the calculation of the heat penalty.

This means that if you fire 3 LRM10 you have the multiplier for 3 launchers fired and the base heat generated by LRM10. These numbers are used to calculate the actual heat penalty applied to normal heat generation.

If you fire 2 LRM10 and 1 LRM20 you also have the multiplier for 3 launchers fired, but the base heat generation used for the calculation of the actual heat penalty, is that of the LRM20.

This means that the heat penalty added to normal heat generation is the same, no matter if you fire 3 LRM20 or 2 LRM10 and 1 LRM20.

[xDeityx]

Paul gets paid our money to come up with things like heat scale. That's so depressing.

[The6047]

ObsidianSpectre, on 06 August 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'm glad they finally nerfed those 4-SRM2 mechs. Those things have dominated the battlefield for too long!

Lol, I logged in at work just to like this

[Tombstoner]

Tie Ma, on 06 August 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

this has clearly gotten out of hand, they've lost control of their own monster,

looking at the updated chart, none of those values make any intuitive sense.

i'm gona go with clan tech.... yup cant be anything else. we dont have access to clan weapons stats so i must assume the balance team has seen something we cant yet and made preemptive fixes. remember clans carry more and lighter weapons. the alpha potential is much higher with clan tech....

if armor is not buffed time to kill will be reduced ~50% so we need heat penalties to slow the game down even on seemingly week weapons.

[MaddMaxx]

If there were a difference between them, the min/max'rs would quickly figure out the BEST over-heat penalty config and the other Launchers, or Linkages, would simply be shelved. Remember, there is an endless supply of Lemmings out there.

This way, all Launchers can still be used and are penalized equally. They still have weight and slot differences that allow the players to make the choice, despite what the min/max'rs may say is optimal.

[MustrumRidcully]

The6047, on 07 August 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Lol, I logged in at work just to like this

Well, SRM2s are the closest SRMs get to pinpoint accurate.

Which is still not very much. Weapons like the SRM or the LBX don't need a boating penalty since they are inherently pinpoint "inaccurate".

Lasers need only very little penalty for boating since while they might benefit from convergence and group fire, they still have the 0.5 to 1 second beam duration preventing great precision and instant damage.

LRMs advantage from group-firing is also not convergence, it's only getting through AMS - preventing LRMs from group-firing means that low number LRMs are easily neutered by AMS, not preventing it makes AMS useless against LRM boats, which overall just shows us that AMS design will never be balanceable until changed.

[Master Q]

TOGSolid, on 06 August 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Let's be accurate here: Nothing about heat scaling makes any intuitive sense.

FTFY.

They really need to jettison this bizarre, completely non-understandable heat scaling and work on the real problem of pinpoint convergence.

[TOGSolid]

Tennex, on 06 August 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

no he said, linked weapons would adopt the penalty of the weapon with the highest heat. Not that they would all be the same from the getgo. How will linked weapons adopt the highest penalty now, if they all start off with the same heat penalty?


Hmm... "if a player fires a LRM20, a LRM15, a LRM10 together, the numbers used to calculate heat values will be from the LRM20."
Tell me how that is possible now that the numbers are all the same.

LRM-20 2 2.8
LRM-15 2 2.8
LRM-10 2 2.8


you clearly did not understand the system

Go reread Paul's post and read the numbers he posted. You're acting like there's some sort of big conspiracy when Paul flat out tells us the numbers you're in an uproar about.

Also, while I haven't done any testing with it, it sounds more like if you fire various linked weapons, you get the highest heat value, not the multiplier. That means LRM 10 X2 + LRM 20 == All your weapons have LRM 20 levels of heat. I haven't ****** around with this yet though but it sounds like this is how it works.

Edited by TOGSolid, 07 August 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Voivode]

Tombstoner, on 07 August 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

i'm gona go with clan tech.... yup cant be anything else. we dont have access to clan weapons stats so i must assume the balance team has seen something we cant yet and made preemptive fixes. remember clans carry more and lighter weapons. the alpha potential is much higher with clan tech....

if armor is not buffed time to kill will be reduced ~50% so we need heat penalties to slow the game down even on seemingly week weapons.

This is a QQ thread, stop using thoughtful logic!!!!!!

[Selfish]

Tennex, on 06 August 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

how is that possible now that the numbers are all the same.

LRM-20 2 2.8
LRM-15 2 2.8
LRM-10 2 2.8



Didn't paul say that they would only have the same penalty when linked?
They couldn't figure out a way to add linked penalties to work so they made them all the same

I'm not sure what you're on about. If you fire 2 LRMs of any type there is no penalty. Only AC/20s have a 2x heat modifier. Modifiers have always been the same, they form the "scale". It's the base heat generation of weapons that create new values in a linked table. 3x LRM20s =/= 3x LRM15s, but 3x LRM20s = 2x LRM15s + 1x LRM20.

It's a bad system, particularly in the case of Missiles which already have tubings to limit their alphas, but it works as stated.