38 replies to this topic

[Drazyx]

yesterday, post patch, was the first time in all my MWO experience, that i was killed by the first very first alpha on my 100% mech. 2ppc+1 guass hit my catapult c4 square in the cockpit and killed me instantly; first shot of the game, first hit on my mech. This must have happened due to these crit changes. aggravatingly good shot, 500-600m away.

[JC Daxion]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Fun fact: Small lasers have high crit chances, too. 6 SL + 2 MGs = instant destruction of an AC/20 (18 health). Even if there's 6 damage done by 2 super MG bullets, that leaves 12 crit damage done by small lasers. Worth testing!

So does this mean small pulse lasers are now very much viable?

[Koniving]

JC Daxion, on 07 August 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

So does this mean small pulse lasers are now very much viable?

They've been viable for some time. More so now than before. But if you read back, Selfish demonstrated it really was the MGs that did the footwork. The SLs did the armor work.

[Void Angel]

Kon, do you know if the crit damage is always applied, even if there's only internal structure (like a leg with nothing in it?)

[Koniving]

Void Angel, on 07 August 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Kon, do you know if the crit damage is always applied, even if there's only internal structure (like a leg with nothing in it?)

According to Red, no. I haven't had time to test, and honestly it's something unreliable to test as it's not something that repeats itself every time. Random chances are very hard to test. Then to do 15% of a random chance...

Best guess is to snag any weapon, run onto Testing Grounds and run up to the Commando. Use 1 AC/2 on its leg 8 times. Armor stripped. Then use any weapon you want to test remembering that the Commando's leg health without the armor is supposed to be 12. So if you use the small laser 3 times and destroy the leg, you know you couldn't have done 12 damage, and thus the crit damage applies to the health with nothing in the leg.

If it takes you 4 times with the small laser, well that ~could~ mean no. But again it isn't easy to test because you don't have all the variables.

[Void Angel]

That's about what I thought. I could just load into the proving grounds and use a machinegun on limbs after I've stripped the armor, but I wanted to see if someone knew first. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 07 August 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[Deathlike]

I believe the answer is yes... crits can still be applied to internals even when there are none left.

I saw a Stalker get finished in 5 seconds or so by the 4MG Spider while its torso was exposed. Although... you have to consider that the engine has 15HP and at most you can store an additional 2 DHS on a 300+ engine to increase the total HP value to 35 (10HP each for 2 DHS).

I could be wrong. It should be easy to test you would think.... it shouldn't be hard to guesstimate the time to kill on a mech once its torso is exposed.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 August 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[Modo44]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

I figured this much, but whenever I say it people say I'm full of it and exaggerating how powerful MGs are.

Because many do not know that MGs hit directly, so you should not be leading with them. It is nowhere in the description, and the bullets look like, you know, bullets.

[Selfish]

Void Angel, on 07 August 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

• If that crit roll is successful, the damage that caused the critical is multiplied by a factor of 1, 2, or 3 (depending on the roll) and applied to a randomly selected piece of equipment (i.e. an Autocannon) in that location.

I'm not clear whether this effect takes place if there is no equipment stored in a breached hit location - I think it might, but I'm entirely unsure on that point. It depends on how the game determines whether to roll a critical in the first place, and how that's handled.

These two I can respond to. First, the 1x, 2x, 3x crit modifiers don't just multiply the damage and add it as critical damage. They create the appropriate roll of weapon base damage (or adjusted damage) which are then applied to items in a component. So a 3x crit with an AC/5 would look like 5-5-5 and comprise three successive rolls to determine where each 5 damage part lands, not a single roll of 15.

Critical transfer damage is being added regardless of whether or not there's an item present. It's just a straight 15% of all critical damage done. I'm not sure if it's intended, but it's what's occurring in game at the moment.

[Void Angel]

So, I was wrong on that bullet point; it's the weapon's base damage, not the damage that actually penetrates the armor? I'll go fix it, then, to avoid misinformation.

Modo44, on 07 August 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Because many do not know that MGs hit directly, so you should not be leading with them. It is nowhere in the description, and the bullets look like, you know, bullets.

How come Smurfy's lists projectile speed at 100m/s? Those stats draw directly from the game files... is the game just rendering the machine gun special effects at that speed, but treating it as a hitscan weapon?

[Modo44]

Void Angel, on 08 August 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

How come Smurfy's lists projectile speed at 100m/s? Those stats draw directly from the game files... is the game just rendering the machine gun special effects at that speed, but treating it as a hitscan weapon?

Bingo.

[Koniving]

Void Angel, on 08 August 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

So, I was wrong on that bullet point; it's the weapon's base damage, not the damage that actually penetrates the armor? I'll go fix it, then, to avoid misinformation.

How come Smurfy's lists projectile speed at 100m/s? Those stats draw directly from the game files... is the game just rendering the machine gun special effects at that speed, but treating it as a hitscan weapon?

That appears to be the speed of the particle effects.

Don't know, but my old results with the MGs and flamers were awesome. Always on target because flamers + your face = blind person.
Later, removed the flamers. Started leading, my accuracy dropped to crap, as did all my stats with MGs.
Then I listened to Prosperity Park, and started doing amazing damage with MGs again. They hitscan like lasers.

They were upgraded with the energy (laser) HSR, too. They're instant hits. Don't lead them.

[travelbug]

so the lb10x should be getting more crits now right?

i dont know if its just me but i seem to be getting much less crits on the lbx post patch.

[Void Angel]

Drazyx, on 07 August 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

yesterday, post patch, was the first time in all my MWO experience, that i was killed by the first very first alpha on my 100% mech. 2ppc+1 guass hit my catapult c4 square in the cockpit and killed me instantly; first shot of the game, first hit on my mech. This must have happened due to these crit changes. aggravatingly good shot, 500-600m away.

Actually, 600m is well within the optimal range of all those weapons, so the 25point alpha strike to your 21-point hit location is more than sufficient to kill you.

[Sky Hunter]

I am sure someone has already replied the correct answer, but I did not bother to read the replies.

Internal Structure is essentially the bones and muscles. Once armor is gone there is a 25% chance to hit other parts such as a heat sink (10 HP DMG to kill the heat sink without crit), but what that 15% is doing is transferring damage to internal structure regardless of a crit on a component.

What this boils down to is somewhat simple. This means that where you sit there firing firing firing into the center rear torso of a cored (no armor) mechs, you will no longer have to pump in 600 damage with your srms only to have that mech turn around and kill you when he should have long been dead.

Anyone who has been amazed that a mech refused to die while taking such a pounding without so much as a slight torso twist to reduce some of the damage can attest to the frustration. So instead of the 600 damage being mitigated by components, engine shielding and other stuff, 15% of the critical damage is going to the structure (bones) of the mech which houses and supports the component (legs, arms, torsos, head).

Additionally, damage to the engine now causes bleed heat (reducing cooling efficiency)

[TheCaptainJZ]

Sky Hunter, on 21 December 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

necro much? This thread is over a year old.

[Koniving]

Felio, on 06 August 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

[/list]My understanding was that previously, once armor had been stripped to a section, equipment stored there had a chance to be damaged by a critical hit. Now it says equipment will be damaged by 15% of the damage.

The only possible interpretation I see is that it is an 85% nerf to critical hits, but I know that is not the case.

I have read the wiki article over and over, and it has given me no new insights.

To be specific...
Lets say you have an AC/20.

• You fire, it does 20 damage. No armor. It rolls for a crit. Lets say you get 2 critical hits.
  
• BAM! 2 crits, 40 damage!
  
  • It rolls... Double heatsink!
    
  • DHS takes 20 damage.
    
  • DHS only has 10 health.
    
  • Instantly destroyed.
    
    • 10 damage is lost in the sauce.
  • Another roll for the second crit!
    
    • BAM!
      
    • Weapon: Large Laser, takes 20 damage.
      
    • Large Laser only has 10 health.
      
    • Instantly destroyed!
  • But, now 15% of the total crit damage you dealt is applied to the Internal Structure.
    
  • 1 crit = 20 damage, you had 2 crits.
    
  • 15% of 40 damage = 6.
    
  • You've dealt (20 damage initial shot + 6 which is 15% of crits dealt =) 26 damage to the internal structure of your victim.

(Just realized the necro. Why would you necro a thread to give an explanation?)

Edited by Koniving, 21 December 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Tim East]

I choose to blame you, Koniving. I don't know how or why, but you time-warped this thread back into modernity.

[Sky Hunter]

DOH... did not see that.... LOL

In my defense, it appeared on the list for new posts, otherwise I would never have seen it.

Edited by Sky Hunter, 27 December 2014 - 08:33 AM.