75 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

Sug, on 07 August 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

[/size]

You're gonna have to back that up with a dev quote for me.

I an positive I read it somewhere but cannot track down the Post. I will continue to look though. It was changed after they realized the Tourneys they set up folks were just tagging ALL Mechs and running off to another game.

Maybe it was just for the Tourneys? Don't think so though.

[MrJolly]

Viktor Drake, on 07 August 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Personally, IF and that is a BIG IF, they worked the economy out a bit better, I would like the qualification for gaining an assist to be you must have done at least 20% of the damage to the mech to qualify. A Spider shooting a single small laser at my kills big toe once isn't assiting me. This would solve the assist issue in 12 vs 12.

Considering how happy people are about trying to shoot spiders, even ignoring hefty ppc barrages from the back, he would be assisting you by just standing around polishing his mech...

[Yokaiko]

StaIker, on 07 August 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

What they haven't understood up till now is that their casflow is poor because they designed a version of Mechwarrior that the paying community wasn't interested in. They've picked the least popular game mode from the Mech4 days, for what reason I cannot imagine, and then imposed a system that keeps old league teams (the most dedicated core of players) out of the game by their stupid drop limitations and assorted team-unfriendly features.

If they were actually trying to screw up, they could hardly have done a better job of it.

Because they are copying WoTs models for damn near everything. Its the main reason why I've barely played past patches for months. What they are making is a hybrid of mech 4 and WoT.

.....and the hole way they suck at calculators.

Remember the pillars thing> Anyone ever make more money spotting, or caping, or whatever? No, its get in the biggest mech and do the most damage if you want to reduce the grind. Period.

[Cadodd]

Actually Cbills rewards should be calculated by the damage done (perhaps with bonuses to internal) and as light and medium mechs will always have problems getting the same damage output they should also get some kind of multiplier. It shouldnt be that hard to balance a proper multiplier per mech if PGI got enough match statistics..

[GRiPSViGiL]

MaddMaxx, on 07 August 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Kill Stealing. Why would I ever bother help you, when I can wait until you do all the heavy lifting, then Steal all the C-Bills with ease.

It was changed for that exact reason. Apparently, the Leet min/max'rs of MWO, are also all Kill Stealing wankers, when the C-Bills are in a certain order.

I understand your point but there is no such thing as "kill stealing" in team based games.

Cadodd, on 07 August 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Actually Cbills rewards should be calculated by the damage done (perhaps with bonuses to internal) and as light and medium mechs will always have problems getting the same damage output they should also get some kind of multiplier. It shouldnt be that hard to balance a proper multiplier per mech if PGI got enough match statistics..

I agree. I think there should be some kind of ratio related to the tonnage of the mech being used. That shouldn't be to hard to formulate something within those parameters.

[IC Rafe]

Cadodd, on 07 August 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Actually Cbills rewards should be calculated by the damage done (perhaps with bonuses to internal) and as light and medium mechs will always have problems getting the same damage output they should also get some kind of multiplier. It shouldnt be that hard to balance a proper multiplier per mech if PGI got enough match statistics..

Good point. Aslong as they can actually factor in other factors too, like capping:

[Aim64C]

Cadodd, on 07 August 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Actually Cbills rewards should be calculated by the damage done (perhaps with bonuses to internal) and as light and medium mechs will always have problems getting the same damage output they should also get some kind of multiplier. It shouldnt be that hard to balance a proper multiplier per mech if PGI got enough match statistics..

C-bills in this game should be more event based than damage based. Spotting assists, Kill assists (pro-rated on percent of damage done to the mech before it fell... so if you're dakka-dakkaing a mech to the ground, and a light shoots a small laser at it from 179 meters away and kills it, you still get considerable reward from it), capture assists, TAG/NARC assists, etc should all be your primary means of making c-bills.

Savior kills were a nice idea (though those could add up to ridiculous proportions in some matches).

Though, as others have said, other games have a sort of community-driven award system that tries to put players in charge of teamwork rewards more so than computer algorithms. Because there is only so much data you can collect from a match and only so good a computer is going to be at "rewarding teamwork" based on that data.

Of course, by that same token, having to follow the orders of someone who just so happened to put a command console in their mech to get decent rewards isn't necessarily going to be perfect, either. Particularly if they are giving silly orders (though part of the problem is that any commander has to issue virtually suicidal orders under various circumstances, and has to accept the reality that attrition will happen.... great if you're dealing with AI bots that don't exist but to follow orders... not so great if no one on the team is willing to "take one for the team.")

Though a combination of both would round things out fairly well.

If PGI were to let the community develop it. ... I think that would end up generating better results than PGI at this point...

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Latest patch: income reduced.
Next patch: ability to exchange MCs for Cbills.

ó_Ò

[ztac]

Yeah PGI business model sucks for players , at the end of the day they want to make as much money as possible , so to do this you try to make game duration last longer and reduce possible ingame earnings .. making sense to people?

But the model is good for PGI assuming that they have player retention and the players actually spend money! At some point people will either:-

a) stop playing the game.
be happy with the mechs they have and buy no MC and not be bothered about C-Bill earnings.
c) buy MC.
d) Just keep grinding away even though it is slower.
e) A combination of the above.

And of course you will allways have the collectors that want to try to collect as many mechs in the game as possible! Or buy any new ones , or 1 off offers!

At the end of the day they need to come up with a fine balance of making money and at least trying to keep the players happy. (very hard to do . old saying that you have all no doubt heard before :-'you can keep some of the people happy some of the time , but never all the people happy all of the time!')

Damn I've been smilied on point B.

Edited by ztac, 08 August 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[Cadodd]

Aim64C, on 07 August 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

C-bills in this game should be more event based than damage based. Spotting assists, Kill assists (pro-rated on percent of damage done to the mech before it fell... so if you're dakka-dakkaing a mech to the ground, and a light shoots a small laser at it from 179 meters away and kills it, you still get considerable reward from it), capture assists, TAG/NARC assists, etc should all be your primary means of making c-bills.
...

Yes that's exactly the reward system I would prefer.
They shouldnt take out the events like spoting/savior etc but the the calculation for the kills and assist rewards should be damage based at least by a big amount, e.g. 1/3 static reward (~2k cbills) + 2/3 Damage-based.

[Nutlink]

Ditch the kill and assist bonuses (but keep the others like spotting and such). Provide a bonus based on damage and components destroyed in relation to a mechs value. If an arm has nothing on it, you shouldn't get points for it as component damage (torsos being the exception), but if there was anything else on there then give something like 5% of the cost of the item to the person who knocks it out. Took off the AC20 from that Wang? Here's 6k. Those two LRM20s pulled from a Catapults ears? Here's 10k.

I'd also love to see a Battle Value system implemented specifically for monetary purposes. Say your Atlas DDC has the TT BV of 1,858 and the Commando you did 100 points of damage to has a BV of 541, then 541*100=5410 CBills. On the other hand, if the same Commando did 100 damage to the Atlas, it would be 1,858*100=18,580 CBills.*

Hell, that could even be expanded so that a personal pilots BV could be added. If I'm in the mech I do my best in and get shot up, it should be worth more than me using something I'm new at or worse with. Say, for example, I have a personal BV of 100 in my Atlas and 600 in my Commando. Then using the same scenario the other person would get 1141*100=11,410 CBills against me when I'm in my Commando, but in my Atlas they'd get 1,985*100=19,580 CBills.

Last, but definitely not least, there should be some sort of bonus when using Trial Mechs to help out the new players. Most of the mechs have single heat sinks and that automatically puts them in the losing category. Give them an extra 30-50% CBills when they use a Trial Mech to help them speed along the process of earning money to buy something decent. It goes along with the idea that you'll earn more on them spending real money on MC in the long run if they continue to play now than it would be if they just get thrown to the wolves and quit out of frustration within the first week of playing. Yes, they supposedly only play against other Trial users in their first 25 matches, and they get a nice CBill bonus after said matches, but once they are able to actually start using their own customized mechs they'll want more, and eventually spend more.

*Of course those numbers would be adjusted, I just pulled them out of the air for a proof of concept.

[Corvus Antaka]

why not just reduce the amount of pay/change the way TAG assists are paid up?

also, bigger bonus pay for 3 kills or more and assists perhaps.

[Nutlink]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 08 August 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

also, bigger bonus pay for 3 kills or more and assists perhaps.

Because kills mean precisely squat. If I core out a mech and a Spider runs up behind it with MGs and finishes him off, why should he get the bonus? Damaged based on a value of some sort, be it an artificial battle value or tonnage, would make the payout way more even.

Edited by BOTA49, 08 August 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

BOTA49, on 08 August 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

Because kills mean precisely squat. If I core out a mech and a Spider runs up behind it with MGs and finishes him off, why should he get the bonus? Damaged based on a value of some sort, be it an artificial battle value or tonnage, would make the payout way more even.

yeah but dont forget this can turn into damage farming too still you are correct.

[Deathlike]

Hans Von Lohman, on 06 August 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am watching the NGNG twitch.TV for Tuesday and they had Russ Bullock as their guest.

Early on in the video they asked Russ about the money they make and they said they had to reduce the C-bills because of the 12 mechs on the field. The C-bills needed adjusting because kill assists were adding up to ridiculous amounts of money if you just tag every enemy once.

So, yes. There is a C-bill reduction, but you make it back with kill assists.

So... I have a bit more of the confirmation that Russ is "correct" in his assessment. I honestly wonder why they want to do it this way... it's just not newbie friendly.



































Some bad games and losses are fit into this, but the money is still flowing.

The problem with the entire system is that the "tourney mode" favored assists is just the wrong way to approach the entire c-bill grinding. Oh well.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 August 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Roland, on 06 August 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Isn't it somewhat unlikely that in a 12v12 battle, you are actually going to be shooting every single mech on the enemy team?

Or do they really expect us to walk around as a single giant mob?

I thought the point of having 3 lances was that you'd likely break up that huge group somewhat, and have multiple engagements taking place.

Only really viable as a lrm boat who can "touch" most mechs, even once. The entire hit them once = assist has irked me from the start!