26 replies to this topic

[Delas Ting Usee]

First let me say that I'm just an average player.
There are TONS of other players out there better than me and of course, have a better grasp of tactics then I do. I'm hoping they'll weight in with constructive criticism so we can ALL benefit.
12 versus 12 is the new reality.
It's one we have to adapt to.
Does the mech you choose to pilot determine the role YOU play?
Here's my take on it:

For Lights :
Scout, skirmisher, base defender (if Capped), light hunter and base capper.

For Mediums:
Scout, base defender (either stays on base or near base to return if capped), light hunter, skirmisher.

For heavies:
Sniper support, Brawler, front line LRM support.

For Assaults:
Brawler, front line LRM support.

If you're a light and you've chosen to scout - do just that, deny the urge to shoot the enemy in the back and just lock targets, close in near end of battle when the enemy mechs are nearly done for and finish them.
Also, return to base when your base is being cap or alert your team when you start capping.
PAIR UP if you're a skirmisher and have caught an enemy straggler alone.
If you're a light hunter, the best defence against a light is another light, it frees up your team to focus on priority targets, chase them away.
If you're a light with ECM, stay near your team if they're lacking in ECM coverage, so they don't get LRM to death.
AND finally, if you're spotted, take evasive action and - RETURN TO YOUR TEAM.

For the mostly underappreciated Mediums, I personally think 12 vrs 12 has given that class of mech new life especially on the bigger maps.
Not only are you the best light hunters out there, your speed enables you to return to base quickly.
I've seen 3 mediums take apart a Victor and an Atlas in short order.
Of course, the enemy mechs were already damage which made them easy pickings as they approached to cap. Mediums also make ideal skirmishers especially after the heavier class of mechs have chewed on the enemy a bit.

Heavies and assaults, the sniper role is self explanatory as is the role of a brawler and LRM support.
Here's the thing, you should NEVER go for cap unless it's near the end of game.
It's funny to see a fresh atlas capping only to be surprised by two light mechs who effectively stop his cap.
If he's a good pilot he'll take care of the lights only to be surprised by the other five returning heavies that proceed to have their way with him.
It makes me mad when I see an assault or heavy capping early in the game, especially when their team mates could have used their fire support.

Maps - for smaller maps - there's no real point capping, you'll get found out and taken out real fast.
For the larger maps - a small defence force is a necessity. I'm not saying sit out of combat completely, but be midway between home base and the front lines.

There are many other players out there who are better at this than me. Please do share your opinions and thoughts, only so you don't get pugs who fluster you. And yes, I'll be one of them pugs.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 07 August 2013 - 10:13 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Pug blobs seem to have more inertia, which is nice because it makes it easier to migrate with the rest of the majestic pug herds. And, like everyone's saying, focus fire got a bit of a buff.

[Roadbuster]

That's a really good post Delas.

It really gives a nice overview how the different classes of mechs should be used.
This doesn't mean you can't scout with an Atlas or brawl with a Jenner, but you should always consider what's the most effective use for your mech.

In fact, there is little I'd like to add to your post.

Just one tip for new players: communicate and scout.

Really, it's the most effective thing to do. Scout and find out where the opponent is and where it's headed. Don't just rush ahead at full speed. That's the fastest way to get killed and achieve nothing.
Every mech can "scout". Just tell your team if you notice someone flanking or running towards your base.
And in assault matches, don't leave your base defenseless if you don't know where the enemy is.

[Tstyles]

What would you do with a 4 x AC2 Jager? Not had a chance with 12v12 yet so would be great to get your view on this. Great post btw.

[Razornav]

I agree with a lot of what you list here and I'd like to add some of my recent observations as well.

I've noticed a lot of people now using team chat to send messages. It's not exactly Teamspeak but it is helpful so use it when you can folks. Information is vital! If you can't type then jam on that "R" key repeatedly to light up all targets in view. If anything it will highlight the number and direction of the enemy on the radar for your team. As a scout with ECM that manages to make it behind enemy lines this is invaluable! The information you can relay will be worth more than any minor damage your weapons can inflict at the start of a match.

As a pilot of strictly medium class mechs in addition to light scouts, I've learned that you have to know you class limitations and fight a lot of temptations when a match begins.

• If you are in a light or quick medium (80-90kmh+) don't advance so far out that you are outside the support envelope of your team. No more than one square from the bulk of your force unless you are planning on swinging far off to the sides to flank.
  
• As a medium don't try to be first in combat just because you are typically faster than the assaults or heavies! You will quickly end up outnumbered and outgunned with the larger teams now. Hang back, wait for the fights to develop and move in to flank the occupied mechs to rip them apart with your ordnance.
  
• Scan your teammates at the start of the match using the "TAB" key and look for like class mechs to partner with. Find a buddy and try to stick with him so you can cover each other.

Edited by Razornav, 08 August 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

A good example of the shift in tactics can be represented in the retrofiting of my BJ-1 Blackjack, prior to the patch I was using a 225 standard 2mguns, 1LL and 3 ML. Tended flank, shoo lights off base caps and rescue heavier mechs from jenners, though I was especially fond of picking fights with bigger mechs I knew I could use speed and jump jets to get the upper hand on.

Now im having more fun with the standard 180 engine, two ML and a fat AC20 and tend to cruise just BEHIND the frontline of the herd, often moving to the side to intercept flankers and dirtplant lights (im REALLY fond of jagermechs and cataphracts though, who always seem to have a XL engine and always seem to be looking the other direction -.^)

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 08 August 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Mechteric]

Tstyles, on 08 August 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

What would you do with a 4 x AC2 Jager? Not had a chance with 12v12 yet so would be great to get your view on this. Great post btw.

I haven't tried that just yet (because of that real bad AC2 alternating fire heat bug), but I did try a 3xAC5 jager and I will say that you will need to be really really conservative with your ammo to last as long as possible, as you might need it to finish the round. Also definitely have at least 2 backup medium lasers so you're not quite as useless when you run out of ammo. A better idea might just be to go with 2 large lasers and a couple AC2 instead (or my fav, 2 UAC5's with 2 LL)

[Phoebe]

I find assaluts with the role of lrm support a waste... you have the armor to take lot of damage, stay in front and help the heavies and mediums to deal damage while sharing the taken damage with the other assaults of your team (without an xl to survive more)...IIf you stay back, you just end up being destroyed with most of armor still untouched when the rest of the team is dead.. An lrm support boat can be successfully done using a xl engine catapult armed with only missiles (my pure lrm boat catapult have 70 missiles alpha)..

[Tstyles]

CapperDeluxe, on 08 August 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

I haven't tried that just yet (because of that real bad AC2 alternating fire heat bug), but I did try a 3xAC5 jager and I will say that you will need to be really really conservative with your ammo to last as long as possible, as you might need it to finish the round. Also definitely have at least 2 backup medium lasers so you're not quite as useless when you run out of ammo. A better idea might just be to go with 2 large lasers and a couple AC2 instead (or my fav, 2 UAC5's with 2 LL)

Been running it for a while now, love it. The heat is very manageable, just set them all to group one and hold you finger down! Out of 80 matches I've killed 70 and died 47.

I don't bother with the backup lasers just jam more ammo in there. I like to think of it as a long range assault rifle, in comparison to a sniper rifle...

Considering a 6 x AC2 Jager soon, probably too slow though. I've seen them running on chainfire, what a sound it makes!

[Royalewithcheese]

I've had some good experiences with my AC/40 Jager that might apply to other ballistic Jagers - ammo dependency is an issue, but the process of using the ammo up IMO puts a large enough dent in the other team to justify ammo-dependent builds.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 08 August 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[oldradagast]

All I've really seen is more Deathballing - blobs of mechs sticking together for fear of being focus-fired to death. A lot of tactics that used to work no longer do - going off to cap, trying to flank (especially through a tunnel), and so on. Pretty much anything that leaves you exposed as the only target away from your team's mech Deathball is probably a bad idea these days, or at least a lot harder to perform successfully.

Overall, less maneuvering seems to be the name of the game now.

[Razornav]

With the herds of mech sticking close together now for mutual protection it makes me wonder if the use of Artillery and Air Strikes might be worth using more often. Of course, it would have to do sufficient damage to be considered a serious threat and not just a minor annoyance.

Imagine dropping arty into the heart of these big mech clusters to break them up! Think of the possibilities...

[Elyam]

Most PUG teams seem to be forming into one or two blobs, sometimes with a fast mech (or a few) scouting or capping. When teams don't communicate and start with a strong plan, people just fall into the blobbing, which can be successful but really limits opportunity.

A few times now I've seen better coordinated PUG teams with a lot of strategic chat who use the lance organization to assign objectives, and its been very effective. When done well no lance is ever too far outside the response range of another, and backing each other up is fluid, easy to understand, and keeps everyone alive longer.

In one of these battles a scout announced TAG at the ready and another joined him, and a lance of heavy and assault LRM mechs formed up and two mediums joined the scouts as protection. The final lance held the middle of the map. Of course this isn't that different than things we've all done plenty of times during beta, but it fell together so well this time, especially due to having a whole company. Results were devastating. The other company blobbed up, didn't cooperate as well, and couldn't recover after the first 3 clashes that left them severely wounded and cut in half.

Having a whole company opens many more approaches. We just need to jump in, make real plans, and execute. People stepping up as leaders or quick plan-makers matter more than ever.

Imagine how much more we could do if we could choose our mission, then in a pre-battle room select our mechs and make lances of our own choosing and do some pre-drop planning. Even if we're still dealing with the same matchmaker, at least we get to maximize our options. Looking forward to such future implementations.

Edited by Elyam, 08 August 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Great point. A few things to add or expand on:

RETURN TO THE GROUP. If you were a scout in 8v8 (and I know I did this), it was fun to pop into the main cluster or convoy of enemies, take a few potshots, and then run out. You do this in 12v12, you will most likely die, leaving your team one mech, and one scout, down. Spot the enemy, then return to the group to help harass the other team's Lights and to further hunt once the main column is destroyed. Don't play tentatively, but you're useless once you're dead.

SCOUTING. When you spot the convoy, TAG them or lock onto a SINGLE target. While you can do the quick pass and target the whole convoy in sequence to let your teammates know quickly how many targets are at that location, doing that more than once does nothing and makes it near impossible for the LRMs to take aim effectively. After a bit, they'll stop firing off their salvos because of no locks and you'll be effectively on your own.

MEDIUMS/HEAVIES. This goes for skirmisher, faster-moving Mediums and Heavies, too. While you could engage the enemy and take one down, there's a better chance that the combined fire of 8-10 mechs will take you out before you can do more than singe the paint. Range ahead of the group, but not TOO far ahead. You want to be able to fall back if you find yourself facing more than a handful of mechs. Like the Scouts, when you engage, don't get tunnel vision and bloodlust: be ready to pull back to cover or to your main column.

ASSAULTS. Do NOT go off solo. As someone who pilots Assaults and Scouts, there is nothing more delicious than a lone Atlas or LRM boat (especially the LRM boat). The king(s) of the battlefield fall awfully quickly in 12v12, as it's more likely you'll run into a CLUSTER of lights and not just a lone Jenner.

Razornav, on 08 August 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

With the herds of mech sticking close together now for mutual protection it makes me wonder if the use of Artillery and Air Strikes might be worth using more often. Of course, it would have to do sufficient damage to be considered a serious threat and not just a minor annoyance.

Imagine dropping arty into the heart of these big mech clusters to break them up! Think of the possibilities...

I was thinking the same thing last night, watching the enemy cluster up and frustrated that I could only hit one at a time. Might be time to take the artillery strike and see how it does with denser clusters of enemies.

[Ridersofdoom]

very positive and constructive spot, I wish everyone were so.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Thanks for ALL the feedback.
Also, I urge all new players to use teamspeak or Skype or ANY third party voice comms...this is a TEAM game and as Roadbuster pointed out in his post - communication is KEY.
With 12 V 12 and larger maps - what does that mean for Ballistics?
I use to carry 3 tons of Gauss or AC 20 ammo and that was usually just enough for a 8 V 8 match...now, I find my ammo bins empty at about the 3/4 mark of any match.
BACK UP weapons (med Lasers) become a necessity as well as fire discipline. Practice both.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 08 August 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Tstyles]

Delas Ting Usee, on 08 August 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

With 12 V 12 and larger maps - what does that mean for Ballistics?
I use to carry 3 tons of Gauss or AC 20 ammo and that was usually just enough for a 8 V 8 match...now, I find my ammo bins empty at about the 3/4 mark of any match.
BACK UP weapons (med Lasers) become a necessity as well as fire discipline. Practice both.

bum, never thought of that. So you'd recommend ML over MPL then?

[Delas Ting Usee]

Tstyles, on 08 August 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

bum, never thought of that. So you'd recommend ML over MPL then?

Yes, definitely.
MPLs do one point of damage more and (correct me if I'm wrong) produces more heat.
But more telling, it weights 2 tons.
If I had a mech that had 2 energy slots I rather use ML cause I'll be able to fire more often than say MPL without the fear of overheating in the midst of combat.
Also, the 2 ton savings with MLs will usually go to heat sinks or more ammo.
This is just my opinion, anyone else?

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 09 August 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

You ever bring your mech to say a ridge line, pop up to fire and then retreat only to be blocked by an enthusiastic teammate standing directly behind you?
Be aware of your teammates actions and don't close up too much, allow him to retreat or move to another parallel lane if possible and strike from there.
This also has the benefit of curtailing friendly fire somewhat.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 09 August 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[Koniving]

My own take: The mech you choose does not decide what role you will play. You do. However, each mech 'performs' better in certain roles than as other roles. For example does using an Awesome force you to play support? No. You'd perform a lot better that way, but you can still choose to brawl. Doesn't mean you'll do any good, but you chose how you want to play. Now you'll go about and say Awesomes suck, because they don't fit with how you want to play.

But that said, I do agree with the tips given here.