51 replies to this topic

[Malagant]

I, for one, am sick to death of dropping into massively lopsided matches whether I win or (more likely) lose. I want to play 4v4 or 5v5 matches when clans come out. I think it would be massively easier to balance 4 or 5 mechs over 12, especially if weight caps are introduced. You will likely get matches with elo ratings closer to what you are as well. If they can get weapon balance and redo the heat system, this could be a good game. Currently, it is mediocre at best. With only 2 modes of play, it gets really boring, really fast!

[GODzillaGSPB]

The current avalanche of Atlas makes this even worse. Wanna play in your medium? Well good luck with that. And even droping in a "less capable" assault mech (aka alpha damage under 9000) has brought me many man-tears today.

WE. NEED. DROP. LIMITS.

Unless of course PGI is okay with the current game. Maybe, just like with the mechlab, they are afraid of limiting players too much. Give em fredom, give em the option to drop with 4 Atlas. And yeah, why not.

I guess I could wait until hell freezes over for them to give a clear statement on what their idea of a fair match is.

[Malagant]

This is also a huge reason why having campaigns included (for sale at a nominal fee of course) would help increase the playership (and revenues to boot!). This is more a multiplayer arcade shooter rather than a game of tactical team combat...

[izoli]

Magicbullet141, on 08 August 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

This game cannot handle 12 players. Lots of people have low end PCs that cannot handle this game now. 12v12 is putting an emphasis on "PUGs make you lose". Either stick with the death ball or die. Sniper war standoffs, if you try to move you'll be focused down by 6-10 players with ppcs. In a 8v8 one pilot could severely damage 3 other mechs and change the tide of the game. In 12v12 one pilot could do 1100 damage and his team still get rolled (happened to me). Capping takes forever now, a single mech or two cannot cap points in a timely manner. A four man group of the best MWO players in the world could drop together and will still get rolled often. If a lance splits off, you're screwed.

If you take out the value of the individual, multiplayer games are not fun anymore.

Kidding me? As it happens I just recorded a game playing empire of the sun as a joke for a friend pretty much just running around and this just goes to show that sometimes groups are very bad at this game and you can easily do fine solo.

Very, very bad...

I will use my telepathy to know you are going to say that is because I am playing an overpowered Jenner. But truthfully if they had the least bit amount of common sense I should have either been dead pretty quickly or forced to retreat.

Playing with a coordinated group is amazingly fun, so much funner than solo. But to say you "cant" solo then I say bs.

Edited by izoli, 02 October 2013 - 09:30 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

You can still make a difference as one man but I sometimes would like the 8 man stuff from time to time.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

izoli, on 02 October 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Kidding me? As it happens I just recorded a game playing empire of the sun as a joke for a friend pretty much just running around and this just goes to show that sometimes groups are very bad at this game and you can easily do fine solo.

Very, very bad...

I will use my telepathy to know you are going to say that is because I am playing an overpowered Jenner. But truthfully if they had the least bit amount of common sense I should have either been dead pretty quickly or forced to retreat.

Playing with a coordinated group is amazingly fun, so much funner than solo. But to say you "cant" solo then I say bs.

In that match both of the enemy jenners got themselves cored at the very start of the match allowing you to run around shooting up LRM boats largely unopposed by other lights. Not really a tough match for any good light pilot to do well in, and hardly an example of soloing a complete enemy team.

Solo implies facing equal or greater odds and through your own skill and effort carrying your team on your back to victory. If you'd killed both jenners single handedly and then gone on to do all the rest, that would be an example of sololing.

It used to be possible solo in this game. Nowdays not so much unfortunately. If they ever bring in 1 v 1 Solaris arena matches I'll start loving this game again.

[izoli]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 02 October 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

In that match both of the enemy jenners got themselves cored at the very start of the match allowing you to run around shooting up LRM boats largely unopposed by other lights. Not really a tough match for any good light pilot to do well in, and hardly an example of soloing a complete enemy team.

Solo implies facing equal or greater odds and through your own skill and effort carrying your team on your back to victory. If you'd killed both jenners single handedly and then gone on to do all the rest, that would be an example of sololing.

It used to be possible solo in this game. Nowdays not so much unfortunately. If they ever bring in 1 v 1 Solaris arena matches I'll start loving this game again.

That was just a game I happened to record the other day and yes I guess I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "solo". In my opinion you should never be able to carry a bad team to a victory on your own because that just shows lack of balance. You are right they lost because they made stupid decisions which happen all the time and that is what allows you to queue solo without much problem most of the time.

My version of solo though would be to queue by yourself and having a fun experience with balanced game-play. There will be games that your teammates will make stupid decisions and you will lose because of that. It is a team game however and your teammates bad decisions will affect the outcome of your game.

[Kmieciu]

GODzillaGSPB, on 01 October 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

What I've also learned since 12 vs 12 went live is that speed is not a trait, unless you're a light and are really fast. But a fast heavy mech, like the Dragon...what for? If you decide to use that speed for a cool flanking maneuver, you're put down. STAY WITH THE BLOB. And bring an assault mech to make that blob as strong as possible.

I agree! Right now you should either go 150 kph or match the speed of the assaults on your team.

Recently I've been using a rather slow Blackjack (80 kmh) with an XL engine. In 8vs8 it was a really bad idea. But right now all I do is stay with the blob and jump-snipe from behind that Atlas/Stalker/Rock. I get lots of kills and assists, and in case of defeat I'm the last one on my team to die.
Fun fact: a Blackjack often mounts more heatsinks than an Atlas, therefore it has more sustained DPS when using energy/ballistic builds and the jumps jets let you use that firepower more often and more safely.

[Rakshasa]

Not quite sure where the idea that "killing 4 enemy mechs contributes nothing to the effort" came from. You've wiped out a full lance of enemy players. The fact that the enemy team still has a fighting chance doesn't make the individual effort less Herculean, it means that it's less of a deal-breaker in the wider picture under normal circumstances.

Case in point - 12v12 on Forest Colony, our side has been wiped out bar 1 damaged but fully armed Raven and a disarmed Jagermech (iirc, it was a couple of weeks ago). The surviving enemy force consists of an Atlas, a Highlander, a Catapult and a Centurion, all with varying degrees of damage ranging from serious to critical. They haven't moved on our base, clearly intent on mopping up our survivors. I'm spectating from the Raven's cockpit, waiting for the inevitable - hey, games go wrong, always another match right?

Our Raven goes berserk. Running in from the shoreline, he (she?) first cuts down the Highlander with a medium laser volley as it emerges from an inlet to the mech's left. Impressive, but I remember the Highlander's CT being nearly cored anyway.

Next up is the Centurion, only a couple of seconds later, and that Raven just keeps on going. Takes the Centurion out in short order, though which section it destroyed I couldn't tell you exactly (lots of beams and explosions). Still, hella impressive! Two kills against heavier opponents in a few short seconds. It's glorious, but it's surely the swan-song for such a little mech.

Then it proceeds to scythe the legs off the Catapult.

At this point I'm realizing that things aren't going the way they should be going. The Raven's CT has taken multiple hits and is in the red, but it's still charging headlong. Only the enemy Atlas is left, in the canyon area near our base. It's damaged, but still fully armed. The Raven's pilot, clearly no longer operating under normal human thought processes and channelling the screaming insanity of a honey badger, charges the Atlas at full speed and begins circling it like an enraged mosquito. The Atlas swings and lumbers, but its too slow to track and somehow the Raven's CT survives.

Unbelievably the Raven won, carrying our team to victory out of the jaws of defeat, and for the rest of my time playing MWO I will forever recall the charge of the Furious Raven. It was epic in the truest sense, a 35-ton David vs. a combined 310 tons of Goliath, and the very epitome of individual effort carrying the team. In a better world, that crippled Jagermech would have deployed a giant pair of pom-poms and started cheerleading. 12vs12 may seem to reduce individual effort, but in no way has it eliminated it. I've seen one of the best examples, and I continue to see others with a fair amount of regularity. Don't feel disheartened - if you're regularly getting 4 kills and 1000+ damage, you'll be welcome on any team anyday

Edited by Rakshasa, 03 October 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

So many forumbads posting on here that it makes my individual posting efforts meaningless.

[Devil Fox]

PEEFsmash, on 03 October 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

So many forumbads posting on here that it makes my individual posting efforts meaningless.

Wait wait... they had meaning?!

Now on topic... I think individual skill is still there, but one person can't carry an entire team of bads (can still pump out 800+ dmg and multiple kills) but without real support and output by your comrades it's a fruitless effort, considering half the teams that you need to carry can't put out more then 100+dmg themselves before they suicide.

A 4man can carry a team to victory but then you either have to be highly skilled or use the team as meatshields to ensure you can land accurate hits. One tonnage limits are inplace I expect an individual might have more chances in a 12v12 match to affect the battle, but then by the time that system is inplace it will be too late.

[jeffsw6]

Magicbullet141, on 08 August 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

If you take out the value of the individual, multiplayer games are not fun anymore.

World of Tanks is a 15v15 game, and they are testing 30v30. The pace of the game is hugely different than MW:O, but one player can have an affect on the outcome; and a 3-man platoon (the maximum group size for public, random matches) can easily usher in a victory.

You can't carry a team to victory in every map, situation, or tank; though. The best players in World of Tanks have win rates in the mid-60% range, and all the players I know who have that kind of W/R don't solo very much; they mostly play in 3-man groups.