12V12 Makes Individual Efforts Meaningless
#41
Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:36 AM
#42
Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:07 AM
WE. NEED. DROP. LIMITS.
Unless of course PGI is okay with the current game. Maybe, just like with the mechlab, they are afraid of limiting players too much. Give em fredom, give em the option to drop with 4 Atlas. And yeah, why not.
I guess I could wait until hell freezes over for them to give a clear statement on what their idea of a fair match is.
#43
Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:32 PM
#44
Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:07 PM
Magicbullet141, on 08 August 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:
If you take out the value of the individual, multiplayer games are not fun anymore.
Kidding me? As it happens I just recorded a game playing empire of the sun as a joke for a friend pretty much just running around and this just goes to show that sometimes groups are very bad at this game and you can easily do fine solo.
Very, very bad...
I will use my telepathy to know you are going to say that is because I am playing an overpowered Jenner. But truthfully if they had the least bit amount of common sense I should have either been dead pretty quickly or forced to retreat.
Playing with a coordinated group is amazingly fun, so much funner than solo. But to say you "cant" solo then I say bs.
Edited by izoli, 02 October 2013 - 09:30 PM.
#45
Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:12 PM
#46
Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:17 PM
izoli, on 02 October 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:
Kidding me? As it happens I just recorded a game playing empire of the sun as a joke for a friend pretty much just running around and this just goes to show that sometimes groups are very bad at this game and you can easily do fine solo.
Very, very bad...
I will use my telepathy to know you are going to say that is because I am playing an overpowered Jenner. But truthfully if they had the least bit amount of common sense I should have either been dead pretty quickly or forced to retreat.
Playing with a coordinated group is amazingly fun, so much funner than solo. But to say you "cant" solo then I say bs.
In that match both of the enemy jenners got themselves cored at the very start of the match allowing you to run around shooting up LRM boats largely unopposed by other lights. Not really a tough match for any good light pilot to do well in, and hardly an example of soloing a complete enemy team.
Solo implies facing equal or greater odds and through your own skill and effort carrying your team on your back to victory. If you'd killed both jenners single handedly and then gone on to do all the rest, that would be an example of sololing.
It used to be possible solo in this game. Nowdays not so much unfortunately. If they ever bring in 1 v 1 Solaris arena matches I'll start loving this game again.
#47
Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:12 PM
Rat of the Legion Vega, on 02 October 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:
In that match both of the enemy jenners got themselves cored at the very start of the match allowing you to run around shooting up LRM boats largely unopposed by other lights. Not really a tough match for any good light pilot to do well in, and hardly an example of soloing a complete enemy team.
Solo implies facing equal or greater odds and through your own skill and effort carrying your team on your back to victory. If you'd killed both jenners single handedly and then gone on to do all the rest, that would be an example of sololing.
It used to be possible solo in this game. Nowdays not so much unfortunately. If they ever bring in 1 v 1 Solaris arena matches I'll start loving this game again.
That was just a game I happened to record the other day and yes I guess I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "solo". In my opinion you should never be able to carry a bad team to a victory on your own because that just shows lack of balance. You are right they lost because they made stupid decisions which happen all the time and that is what allows you to queue solo without much problem most of the time.
My version of solo though would be to queue by yourself and having a fun experience with balanced game-play. There will be games that your teammates will make stupid decisions and you will lose because of that. It is a team game however and your teammates bad decisions will affect the outcome of your game.
#48
Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:10 AM
GODzillaGSPB, on 01 October 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:
I agree! Right now you should either go 150 kph or match the speed of the assaults on your team.
Recently I've been using a rather slow Blackjack (80 kmh) with an XL engine. In 8vs8 it was a really bad idea. But right now all I do is stay with the blob and jump-snipe from behind that Atlas/Stalker/Rock. I get lots of kills and assists, and in case of defeat I'm the last one on my team to die.
Fun fact: a Blackjack often mounts more heatsinks than an Atlas, therefore it has more sustained DPS when using energy/ballistic builds and the jumps jets let you use that firepower more often and more safely.
#49
Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:11 PM
Case in point - 12v12 on Forest Colony, our side has been wiped out bar 1 damaged but fully armed Raven and a disarmed Jagermech (iirc, it was a couple of weeks ago). The surviving enemy force consists of an Atlas, a Highlander, a Catapult and a Centurion, all with varying degrees of damage ranging from serious to critical. They haven't moved on our base, clearly intent on mopping up our survivors. I'm spectating from the Raven's cockpit, waiting for the inevitable - hey, games go wrong, always another match right?
Our Raven goes berserk. Running in from the shoreline, he (she?) first cuts down the Highlander with a medium laser volley as it emerges from an inlet to the mech's left. Impressive, but I remember the Highlander's CT being nearly cored anyway.
Next up is the Centurion, only a couple of seconds later, and that Raven just keeps on going. Takes the Centurion out in short order, though which section it destroyed I couldn't tell you exactly (lots of beams and explosions). Still, hella impressive! Two kills against heavier opponents in a few short seconds. It's glorious, but it's surely the swan-song for such a little mech.
Then it proceeds to scythe the legs off the Catapult.
At this point I'm realizing that things aren't going the way they should be going. The Raven's CT has taken multiple hits and is in the red, but it's still charging headlong. Only the enemy Atlas is left, in the canyon area near our base. It's damaged, but still fully armed. The Raven's pilot, clearly no longer operating under normal human thought processes and channelling the screaming insanity of a honey badger, charges the Atlas at full speed and begins circling it like an enraged mosquito. The Atlas swings and lumbers, but its too slow to track and somehow the Raven's CT survives.
Unbelievably the Raven won, carrying our team to victory out of the jaws of defeat, and for the rest of my time playing MWO I will forever recall the charge of the Furious Raven. It was epic in the truest sense, a 35-ton David vs. a combined 310 tons of Goliath, and the very epitome of individual effort carrying the team. In a better world, that crippled Jagermech would have deployed a giant pair of pom-poms and started cheerleading. 12vs12 may seem to reduce individual effort, but in no way has it eliminated it. I've seen one of the best examples, and I continue to see others with a fair amount of regularity. Don't feel disheartened - if you're regularly getting 4 kills and 1000+ damage, you'll be welcome on any team anyday
Edited by Rakshasa, 03 October 2013 - 03:44 PM.
#50
Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:12 PM
#51
Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:01 PM
PEEFsmash, on 03 October 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:
Wait wait... they had meaning?!
Now on topic... I think individual skill is still there, but one person can't carry an entire team of bads (can still pump out 800+ dmg and multiple kills) but without real support and output by your comrades it's a fruitless effort, considering half the teams that you need to carry can't put out more then 100+dmg themselves before they suicide.
A 4man can carry a team to victory but then you either have to be highly skilled or use the team as meatshields to ensure you can land accurate hits. One tonnage limits are inplace I expect an individual might have more chances in a 12v12 match to affect the battle, but then by the time that system is inplace it will be too late.
#52
Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:31 PM
Magicbullet141, on 08 August 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:
World of Tanks is a 15v15 game, and they are testing 30v30. The pace of the game is hugely different than MW:O, but one player can have an affect on the outcome; and a 3-man platoon (the maximum group size for public, random matches) can easily usher in a victory.
You can't carry a team to victory in every map, situation, or tank; though. The best players in World of Tanks have win rates in the mid-60% range, and all the players I know who have that kind of W/R don't solo very much; they mostly play in 3-man groups.
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