36 replies to this topic

[eisenpanzer]

I know it will probably be 'better' with more money put into it, but I own a Flame and comparing side-by-side I'm having trouble figuring a reason to play it over the Flame.

I can run a 300 STD engine on my Flame with a gauss + 2 LL and be fast with heavy firepower without an XL to add risk of death.

Or I can run my 265 XL go about 71kph with AC20 on shoulder and 4x ML.

I feel pretty beefy and maneuverable with both setups, the ballistic is high on my shoulder making it perfect for poptarting and harder to blow off.

On my victor my ballistic slot on on a low slung arm, so hard to use except up close and personal and gets blown off all the time. I would need to run an XL to have both similar speed and firepower. It's a bigger chassis, and dies more often to CT where I usually lose one if not both my arms on my Flame first because the right arm is good for shielding CT.

With the lower speed, and poor hardpoint placement for effective cover use, I feel like I can't do anything against LRMwarrior online meta where both teams just engage at long range with PPC/gauss and LRM exchanges.

The only thing Vic has that Flame doesn't so far as I can tell is JJ.

I've bought endo for it but before I invest in DHS I was wondering if it was just something I was doing wrong with it.

[ShadowbaneX]

The Victor is better than most Assaults for taking an XL Engine. I still die too often to losing a ST though. An XL350 will let you hit 70.9 without speed tweak. Load up with brawling weaponry, ie AC/20, SRMs & a couple of MLs and you've got yourself a solid brawling rig.

While an Assault, it plays more like a Heavy. If you're the only Assault around, ok fine, go in and throw your weight around, but if there are Atlai, Highlanders or Stalkers around, you want to let the other Assaults go in first, take the heat and then move in, or better use that extra speed & Jump Jets to flank and hit them from the sides or behind.

If you can find that seam in the battle, where you can slip in while the enemy's attention is focused elsewhere you can really do some serious damage. If you're running a head of the time face first into the vanguard of their fire power, yeah, you're not going to be able to do much.

[Modo44]

The Victor is the only non-hero mech that can do 2xERPPC+Gauss on the arms (the other is the Heavy Metal). Combined with jjs, you get 35 damage that is extremely easy to apply. Replace ERs with plain PPCs, and you also get very good heat. I traded up from my mastered Dragon 1C (ERPPC+Gauss+2xMLAS) to a Victor 9K (2xERPPC+Gauss+SRM8), and this thing is a beast even before unlocking everything. However, if you are not used to arm-mounted ballistics, it's probably nothing special.

[Lennex]

I love the Victor, and I see a lot of bashing, but I really think it comes down to the pilot. I've only found a couple of chassis that no matter the day I'm having, I'll always have fun with, the Victor is one of those mechs, with Trebuchet's being second.

The Victor is quick, maneuverable, and feels more like a heavy than a light. It packs a mean punch, and is easy on the heat scale. It's vicious in the right hands.

[Bront]

Arm mounted Balistics, extra armor, and JJs are the big three advantages it has. I love mounting a 360XL in mine, goes 80.2 with speed tweak, which gives it good maneuverability, and it makes a great flanker than can brawl with mediums and heavies if it needs to.

[Jodajo]

Btw, from what I've seen, mostly anyone owning a VTR is aiming for SRMs on their missile hardpoints. I have a bit of a different approach, setting up LRMs instead. And I've had some success with it, scoring my highest damage output (>1000) in one match. Is anyone else doing this? Or could somebody give me some insight about pros/cons? I mean, I just like to be flexible with my VTR. LRMs appear to be good guaranteed damage over distance. For brawling I rely on an AC20 + 2LLs. With this weapon setup the VTR shines at medium distance with combined damage output from all weapons.

[Flying Blind]

Not to mention it is the only mech in the game (that I am aware of) that can mount an AC20 in its arm and still move that arm right and left independently of the torso. Plus everything already said means I like the victor even though I hate assault mechs.


I have seen plenty of victors sporting LRMS and seeming to do well.

Edited by Flying Blind, 08 August 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Elyam]

The Victor shows best when in the hands of a pilot very familiar with in-skirmish jump maneuvering. I'm still catching up with some of the best in this regard. Some days I'm hot (leaped into a valley of foes and withstood several minutes in the midst of 2 AS7, an STK brawler, another VTR and 2 HBK while the rest of my company was still exchanging fire with them across a ridgeline - and it was constant erratic jump maneuvering plus accurate fire that allowed me to last and take down two of them, encouraging my teammates to finally charge and finish the job), and other days I blow it. But my skill at this has been steadily rising to where effectiveness while among multiple foes is the norm.

While it depends on the pilot, for me the VTR has the edge on the HGN in this role due to the higher achievable speeds - particularly the 6-JJ 9K. It can get in and out quicker and keep foes off balance easier. And I always use XL engines in it. If I get taken out by ST hits in the VTR, I'm not doing my job (which certainly happens). Typically I'm using a 320XL though, so it's possible to remain agile while having enough tonnage for a mean loadout (Gauss or 20, 2 LL, SRM6+4, full armor).

The Dragon is a fine mech, particularly with your loadout, but it can't match the VTR in this role. The tonnage/structure/armor difference is too steep while the maneuver difference isn't great enough.

[Bront]

Jodajo, on 08 August 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Btw, from what I've seen, mostly anyone owning a VTR is aiming for SRMs on their missile hardpoints. I have a bit of a different approach, setting up LRMs instead. And I've had some success with it, scoring my highest damage output (>1000) in one match. Is anyone else doing this? Or could somebody give me some insight about pros/cons? I mean, I just like to be flexible with my VTR. LRMs appear to be good guaranteed damage over distance. For brawling I rely on an AC20 + 2LLs. With this weapon setup the VTR shines at medium distance with combined damage output from all weapons.

I tried an LRM + AC10 + ERPPC build for some longer range punch and support. I had to put in a slower engine in it (XL300), but it was effective, but not because of the LRMs.

For most Victors, the issue is the less than optimal tubes. Still, if you're effecitve with it, then work it.

[eisenpanzer]

ShadowbaneX, on 08 August 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

The Victor is better than most Assaults for taking an XL Engine. I still die too often to losing a ST though. An XL350 will let you hit 70.9 without speed tweak. Load up with brawling weaponry, ie AC/20, SRMs & a couple of MLs and you've got yourself a solid brawling rig.

While an Assault, it plays more like a Heavy. If you're the only Assault around, ok fine, go in and throw your weight around, but if there are Atlai, Highlanders or Stalkers around, you want to let the other Assaults go in first, take the heat and then move in, or better use that extra speed & Jump Jets to flank and hit them from the sides or behind.

If you can find that seam in the battle, where you can slip in while the enemy's attention is focused elsewhere you can really do some serious damage. If you're running a head of the time face first into the vanguard of their fire power, yeah, you're not going to be able to do much.

Therein lies the problem.
That works on paper.

The 'other assaults going in to brawl' thing.

Happens maybe once every 20 games.

Most assaults I play with are boating LRM, PPC, or ballistics, never engage.

I get team after team that will wipe to teams with superior range because my atlases/stalkers etc. don't want to get close.

Feels like it's just the wrong mech for the meta.

I'm about to give up on this game because of LRMwarrior online meta.

Also what armor are most running on their victor?
Right now my Flame has higher armor rating. I maxed it out though, where I don't have the weight to spend on my victor without butchering my build until I can afford XL and stuff

Edited by eisenpanzer, 08 August 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[MacKerris]

Love the Victor!

It's a mech for flanking and not for going toe to toe. For example when the two sides engage run around the side and shoot whoever is off by themselves. Use terrain to get into position without being seen. When they turn to engage, jump over their head and do it again. Hide behind cover, don't become the target. If you have to go toe to toe use your jumpjets and speed to your advantage.

eisenpanzer, on 08 August 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Also what armor are most running on their victor?
Right now my Flame has higher armor rating. I maxed it out though, where I don't have the weight to spend on my victor without butchering my build until I can afford XL and stuff

Standard armor mostly maxed.
330+ XL (350,380,400 right now)

If you want some ideas to try.....MechSpecs is one place to look other than here.

[CeeKay Boques]

Don't think of it as an Assault, but a massive badass heavy, and use it that way. I was scared with how slow it was that I wouldn't love it like the MW4 one... but its a great fighter.

[ShadowbaneX]

eisenpanzer, on 08 August 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Therein lies the problem.
That works on paper.

The 'other assaults going in to brawl' thing.

Happens maybe once every 20 games.

Most assaults I play with are boating LRM, PPC, or ballistics, never engage.

I get team after team that will wipe to teams with superior range because my atlases/stalkers etc. don't want to get close.

Feels like it's just the wrong mech for the meta.

I'm about to give up on this game because of LRMwarrior online meta.

Also what armor are most running on their victor?
Right now my Flame has higher armor rating. I maxed it out though, where I don't have the weight to spend on my victor without butchering my build until I can afford XL and stuff

Well, I can't help too much with that. Seems largely to me that people are moving in, but perhaps that's just the people I play with.

As for LRMwarrior online (or any x-warrior online) it happens some times. Typically when I'm running my Spider as a scout with TAG there's only 1 mech on the team with LRMs.

I've used mine to decent effect, much better with the AC/20 versions than the Gauss+PPC...I tried that build and hated it. Try something different and come back to it later. Go play a Spider or something. They're fun.

[Eisenhorne]

I bought a Dragon Slayer just to use as a jump sniper... It plays similar to the CTF-3D, but its faster and more heavily armored.

Over 51 games with it so far, 6.16 K/D and an average of 590 dmg per game. I've literally never seen a dragon as deadly as this. If your good with jump jets and manuvering, you can pull some amazing stunts. Just last night, I was in upper city of River City. me and 2 lancemates, along with an enemy dragon, atlas, and victor. My lancemates bought it nearly instantly, and I found myself outnumbered 3-1. So, I turned and ran. The Dragon was able to keep up, so I jumped, turned, shot it in mid air CT twice, and killed it. The atlas and Victor were nearly on me, so I made a few turns through the buildings, and hid under the bridge to lower. Waited until the victor passed on seismic, then jumped up onto the ridge to engage the atlas. Took careful aim, 1-shotted him with a headshot, but not before he legged me. Took a few potshots at the victor while hobbling into the buildings of upper city, and eventually hid behind one. When he came back to look for me, I ambushed him, and killed him as well.

The Victor has the firepower to kill anything, and the manuverability to be anywhere, and the loadout options to fill any role. Its the perfect mech.

[oldradagast]

The Victor is really a horrifying Heavy mech with similar speed, but with a bit more armor, arm-mounted weapons that can clobber anything, and jump jets. Use its speed and maneuverability to your advantage. I just picked up the 9B model and run it with a Standard 300, PPC, AC20, and 2 SRM 4's and 2 jump jets. It's a monster - the left arm strikes targets at long range, the right arm packs a huge punch at closer ranges, and the SRM's are decent defense against "face-huggers."

Good much, yes, but not a traditional "slow mountain of armor" assault mech.

[eisenpanzer]

Maybe I just have terrible luck, I'm looking at 12-25 win/loss on my victor with ~250 damage per match.

When your teams are just falling apart, with a bunch of sub-100 damage players every match there's very little playing I can do to make up for it.

I'm constantly seeing 6 machine gun DDs, lances that are probably 4 man queues hiding behind the team not doing anything, teams that stand on the bridge in Terra Therma and fight side by side dying 2 at a time to enemies lined up 6+ wide in the center.

On the contrary I've got 50-54 on my flame and 541 dpm average which would explain why I feel more confident in it.

Edited by eisenpanzer, 09 August 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

eisenpanzer, on 09 August 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Maybe I just have terrible luck, I'm looking at 12-25 win/loss on my victor with ~250 damage per match.

When your teams are just falling apart, with a bunch of sub-100 damage players every match there's very little playing I can do to make up for it.

I'm constantly seeing 6 machine gun DDs, lances that are probably 4 man queues hiding behind the team not doing anything, teams that stand on the bridge in Terra Therma and fight side by side dying 2 at a time to enemies lined up 6+ wide in the center.

On the contrary I've got 50-54 on my flame and 541 dpm average which would explain why I feel more confident in it.

You can't really make up for a poor team by yourself, unless your a sniper. I've had several games where I'll do 900+ damage and 4-5 kills, while an entire lance from my team will do less than 300 combined. As a brawler, if your team isn't engaging correctly you can't really do much to win.

[ExplodedZombie]

As much as I loved the Fang/Flame variants of the Dragon, I love the Victor even more. The addition of JJs on a speedy assault is like heaven. I don't always get 3 or more kills, but I usually get at least 1 and damage the hell out of the other team before going down.

[Autobot9000]

I think you absolutely must take an XL engine to make this mech shine. The effectiveness comes purely from the combination of brawling power and mobility.

Seeing the XL as a liability is quite an unbalanced perspective. The XL allows you to carry heavy arms and still run at the top speeds of heavy mechs or average medium mech speeds, while you're still armored like an assault. If you should die from a left/right torso hit, what would be your conclusion? It was a bad choice to equip the XL? Think about it this way: How much less damage/fewer kills would you have done without it? How many games do you actually die from side torso hits? The combined speed and jump jets also make it ridiculously easy to torso twist.

I read from your post more the following: You ahve trouble playing a brawler coming from a Gauss&LL mech. My advice is:

1) Pick a fight you can win
2) Use your mobility to outmaneuver/surprise your prey
3) Get comfortable with a brawling style (i.e. get comfortable with a different feeling for range)
4) Stay away from open areas
5) Get a 350XL, 4 JJs, AC20, SRM 6,4,2 and 2 MPL, like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ec04daee50166f

Edit:
Until you have the money for the huge engine you can play the victor with Gauss&2PPCs as a sniper. The Brawler combo really needs the speed.

Edited by Autobot9000, 09 August 2013 - 01:36 PM.

[DegeneratePervert]

the Dragon Slayer makes an excellent jump-sniper... 1x Gauss + 2 ERPPC in the chest is nasty. As far as brawling goes, I really love the Victor 9B.

Standard 300 Engine
1x AMS
2x Medium Laser
1x AC/20
1x SRM6
1x SRM4
2x JumpJets
15 DHS

Makes for an extremely durable and potent brawler, that can fight inside the middle of Caustic without overheating. I haven't quite found the best build for the 9S yet, but I'm playing with a 2x UAC/5 + 2x LL with an XL 350 for speedy DPS support.

Overall, I think the key to the Victor is to recognize that you shine best when you are supporting your team. Personally, I like to find my friendly neighborhood Atlas and cling to his back, swatting light mechs away with AC/20 shells.