8 replies to this topic

[Oznog]

I mentioned this deep in other threads.

The direction I'm seeing is MUCH averse to appropriately strategic designs key to MWO principles.

There's no "building for the task", because the task is unknown.

Energy weapon builds aren't effective on Terra Therma or Caustic Valley. Non-JJ builds are in a lot of trouble on Canyon Network. Whether you need short or long-range weapons is just random.

The further "improvements" devs are going into are making it WORSE. Increasing the already sky-high ERPPC heat is manageable in winter levels, but just nonviable in TT. Terra Therma is so big that a slow mech can't do much of anything except defend. Climbing limitations made some maps very difficult for non-JJ mechs to even move.

You can't really adjust your strategy, because we don't know what we're building for. There's no being "clever" here, you have nothing to base a strategy on. We don't know if we're gonna need range, low heat, high fire rate, LRMs, LRM protection, speed... what.

All you can do is a mix of weapons IF you've got big mech, a Light cannot easily mount both. But you're likely to just get pounded in any particular round by players who did less "balanced all purpose" builds such as getting pounded by enemies' low-heat weapons on TT or by long-range weapons on Alpine Peaks. Perhaps that enemy would do poorly on other maps, but that doesn't really matter to me on a specific match. We have no control over this.

I don't know quite what to tell you because there's not a practical time window for Matchmaker to let all players choose an appropriate Mech build from their lineup.

But don't go in this direction of "more and more intense specialized conditions you cannot anticipate when building". It only undermines the concept of strategy- building for the conditions.

[Universe Man]

I agree about not having JJs...some maps make it difficult to play in without them. Especially if you're slow/assault. I get caught on the lamest things sometimes.

Another thing I haven't caught on with yet is what the heat penalty is for firing more than 1 weapon at a time. There needs to be a page dedicated to this, because new players won't know (I don't even know the details, and I play all the time.

Perhaps the biggest issue for me is that PPC sound is still bugged.

[Braidedheadman]

Quote

I don't know quite what to tell you because there's not a practical time window for Matchmaker to let all players choose an appropriate Mech build from their lineup.

How about this:

Allow players to pick their chassis prior to hitting the launch button. This locks in their tonnage. Prior to starting the round, allow them to select one of the variants that they have in their mechbay, as it was prior to launch. Hopefully, they have a build that is suitable for the map about to be played.

[TheNose]

If players would knew what's next, I bet some maps would be full of sniping Highlander and Stalker, and others maybe with splatcats. But there wouldn't be any strategy involved.

[Flyto]

Oh dear god no, don't let people choose the mech for the map. That'd just result in matches of 24 near-identical mechs, which would be very boring.

At present there is at least some incentive to plan a balanced loadout that, while not optimal anywhere, can at least perform well in most conditions.

[Gixx]

The task is not unknown: Kill the enemy and/or complete the game-mode objectives.

What is unknown is the best tool for the job on any given drop.

Weapons being less or more effective on different maps is a core Mechwarrior experience. It is the pilot's choice to either balance out their weapons or focus on a specific role. This system is inherently fair as no pilot knows if their loadout will be successful on any given map.

I've personally shunned the majority of my non-jumpjet equipped 'Mechs due to the terrain changes. But this is my choice, by doing so I've limited myself to a few 'Mechs and whatever loadout they're capable of carrying.

There is still plenty of room to be "clever", Are you going to dominate every match because you've managed to cobble together the perfect machine for the map? No, but you can optimize your loadouts.

The question I think you need to ask yourself is, are you playing to your role? Or do you need to change up your loadout to better fit the role you find yourself playing? There are plenty of work-arounds to the scenarios you described, but they require teamwork and communication. If the enemy has you pinned with long-ranged weapons, it is because you let them pick the place of conflict. For instance, Alpine Peaks: A simple strategy when the enemy takes hill behind Epsilon is to wait. Sooner or later they will come down to brawl out of boredom or impatience.

Strategy is more than simply tuning your loadout to maximum efficiency before the match begins. It's about communicating with your team and knowing where best to apply your 'Mech once combat starts.

[Wired]

Or maybe it is trying to get you to come up with balanced builds instead of one hit wonders.

[Mystery_Poison]

I personally am fairly sure that PGI have previously stated that they had an interest in augmenting the system to where a player is informed of the chosen map and are then allowed to pick what mech they want with a custom saved loadout for that mech. An example would be I am in the mood for some SDR-5K and Canyon Network is the map for the impending match; I would then click the drop down box to my custom loadout saved as "FLYING MACHINE GUNS WEEE!" since that one makes sure I have included jumpjets in my build. This is the impression that I get from the statements PGI have publicly made about the topic, of course I can only imagine it is subject to change.

[Oznog]

Exxen, on 09 August 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

I personally am fairly sure that PGI have previously stated that they had an interest in augmenting the system to where a player is informed of the chosen map and are then allowed to pick what mech they want with a custom saved loadout for that mech. An example would be I am in the mood for some SDR-5K and Canyon Network is the map for the impending match; I would then click the drop down box to my custom loadout saved as "FLYING MACHINE GUNS WEEE!" since that one makes sure I have included jumpjets in my build. This is the impression that I get from the statements PGI have publicly made about the topic, of course I can only imagine it is subject to change.

I'm not saying they aren't planning. But there's no such system, and the additions to the rules are consistently making mechs MORE impractical/imbalanced on a radnom map-specific basis. It is the opposite of strategy.

I don't quite buy the prior argument of "yeah but it's only a one-hit wonder" as balance. The basis of the mechanic is a problem. For example a football game would not get any benefit out of a variable sized map that players would not be informed of before the game started. Yes, it would strongly favor the long-distance sprinters if it turned out to be a huge field, whereas small fields favor the large "tank" players. So you've stocked your team with mid-size players, but will still likely lose to fast opponents on a big field and tank opponents on a small field. This just isn't a fun gameplay to randomly favor some players based on undisclosed factors.

So Assault mechs are inherently a bad idea on large maps like T Therma Conquest, yet just mow down on say Forest Colony, esp with 12x12 density. You (like Wired here) can't just propose "well, then it's your fault, nobody should be playing Assault class" as a solution of strategy. Not while maps are randomly assigned.

I understand it works as a MINOR part of the game mechanic. But the moves have been to intensify the effect- Assault mechs will be useless in T. Therma's massive map on Conquest mode (can't even win by defending a base), screwing non-JJ mechs with the climbing mechanic on SOME maps, raising weapon heats whereas heat problems is a map-specific thing.