40 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

So in the podcast Bryan goes on to describe his intentions with the Clans.

Yes superior, but not crushingly superior. You can say prenerfed or perhaps corrected. Clan tech has always been a problem.

Lets start with some ideas for a more modest clanner equipment list.

Notion 1: Advanced IS tech just early.

The Fusion engine - Light at 75% weight rather then the 50% of the XL and the same size as the old Clan XL.

All the Ultra autocannons, ER and Pulse lasers and a full set of streaks. At the IS weight and size values.

Hmm, would this mean that the Hunchback IIC would use two UAC-10's?

...

Is it too late for Star (5) vs Company (12)?

[Lord Ikka]

Well, they won't change tonnage or slot size in weaponry- they've already shown that they will keep that no matter what. I'm guessing that the Clan DHS won't be pure double heat sinks, but have only a slight advantage over IS. Clan ER weapons will most likely retain the range advantage, but have either a longer duration or only a slight damage buff over IS versions.

[Jin Ma]

if they cant change tonnage or slot. maybe they will just have clan weapons do same damage as IS weapons.

clan weapons will be lighter still so they can fit more in there, it just won't be devastatingly powerful as well

Edited by Jin Ma, 05 September 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Except for the ERPPC Clan weapons already do the same damage as their IS counterparts.

There is also range but the bulk of Clan superiority is in the form of tonnage and slot improvements.

[General Taskeen]

two uac 10's on hunchback iic?

Nah, stock 2 UAC/20's.

[Novakaine]

Ya seriously think there are going to Clans.
Maybe after they port this over to console.
Which my bet is what thier working on now.
No UI2.0
No CW.
No Lobbies
No Clans.
Yes sir i'm pissed about now.
By the way.
There are no Clans.
The Clans do not exist.
The Clans are a myth.
You have been warned.
Fedcom Milsec.

[Riptor]

You cannot change the weight values for clan mechs.

Their stock builds would not work anymore if their weapons would weight the same as IS variants.

The timberwolf for example wouldnt be able to carry half its guns with IS numbers. Those are LRM20s on its shoulders after all.

Quote

[color=#959595]Except for the ERPPC Clan weapons already do the same damage as their IS counterparts.[/color]

Aaaand thats wrong... atleast for lasers... a clan medium er laser does as much damage as a normal IS heavy laser.

Their ER large laser does the same damage as a IS PPC

Thought i highly doubt they will have the damage and range advantages they have on the table.

I think they will have a bit more damage and range but cause alot more heat and/or have their own ghostheat rules

[DegeneratePervert]

Riptor, on 06 September 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

You cannot change the weight values for clan mechs.

Their stock builds would not work anymore if their weapons would weight the same as IS variants.

Implying that stock builds for IS work now.

Clans scare me. PGI already isn't too good at balancing things (it's better than it was, but still), and 99% of what people love about the clans is the superiority of their tech. If PGI incorporated that, then the balance would be FUBAR.

[Wolfways]

DegeneratePervert, on 06 September 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Implying that stock builds for IS work now.

Clans scare me. PGI already isn't too good at balancing things (it's better than it was, but still), and 99% of what people love about the clans is the superiority of their tech. If PGI incorporated that, then the balance would be FUBAR.

I don't care if they have better tech (other than it fits the lore). I just think many clan mechs look nice and nearly all IS mechs are fugly

[Kanatta Jing]

Riptor, on 06 September 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

You cannot change the weight values for clan mechs.

Their stock builds would not work anymore if their weapons would weight the same as IS variants.

The timberwolf for example wouldnt be able to carry half its guns with IS numbers. Those are LRM20s on its shoulders after all.

Oh silly person. Downgrading the stock builds is exactly what they will have to do.

Hard deviation from cannon on the topic of clan tech to keep some semblance of balance, means making it look and feel like a Timberwolf despite being on a diet.

[Mindwyrm]

My thought. Could they combine ELO with the TT battle values to balance drops?

[Chemie]

Basically you will get the names of clan weapons but they will act like IS weapons.

[Wolfways]

As much as i like the look of the Mad Dog (or the Stone Rhino, but that's not likely to get in the game ) if it hasn't got LRM20's, LPL's, and MPL's it's not a Mad Dog.

[Xeren KelDar]

I'd leave the Clan Xl engine alone. If you only give it a 25% weight reduction for its 4 extra slots then it becomes a Light Engine (developed later by the IS).

Some balance points may not be as bad as some think. The MWO Large Laser does 9 damage and the Clan ER LL (TT) does 10. If the range on that is shaved from its original value of 750 down to say 600 (making it shoot 30m further the IS ER Large) it will still have the advantage of being lighter, more damaging, and shooting further. It just isn't overwhelmingly so.

Another thing that might be a possible consideration would be buffing some IS tech. Maybe bump the ER Medium Laser (when we get it) to 6 damage instead of 5. With a Clan ER ML doing 7 this would shorten the damage difference.

[A Man In A Can]

You know, it may not be a bad idea to fudge on the timeline and give IS versions of the expanded tech at the same time the Clans hit. That way all sides have their Streak 4s/6s, extra Ultras, extra LBxs, etc. Yes the clan versions will be better (and will probably come with some adjusted values to match) BUT at least there won't be a huge gap in technology as per lore which Bryan says quite clearly in the podcast that they cannot adhere to without totally destroying the game. And I can totally understand that.

[Scalien]

Xeren KelDar, on 06 September 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'd leave the Clan Xl engine alone. If you only give it a 25% weight reduction for its 4 extra slots then it becomes a Light Engine (developed later by the IS).

I'd agree with you except for the way this game deals with engine crits..... it doesn't. Engine hits are all or nothing.

If PGI put in the engine crits- where the engine starts putting out heat on the first hit, more on the second then dies on the third, sure, it would be easy to say clan XL count as two engine hits when the side torsos blow.

With out that mechanic there is no reason except the loss of only 4 structure slots. That would make clan XLs the most no brainer tech to go for in the game.

Personally I think clan engines will be only a slightly lighter standard engine, not as light as XL but as safe as standard. Or a lighter XL with the same vulnerability to side torso pops.

Edited by Scalien, 06 September 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Earl White]

If they made clans tech even slightly more powerful than Inner Sphere, then there would be a mass exodus of people from the Inner Sphere (quite appropriate rly considering the lore).

Edited by Earl White, 06 September 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Majorfatboy]

I don't care how overpowered clantech could be, I'll still be an inner sphere player.
What gets Me is that last I heard they're not going to let us salvage and mount clantech onto IS chassis, which was one of the major motivators for an IS unit to fight a clan unit; the chance at some of that advanced tech. Without that, there's zero payout for fighting and winning against a clan unit.
Sure, there's the fluff about defending the inner sphere from the invasion, but there's no tangible payout. In the previous games, I took great pride in salvaging equipment from clanners and putting it on IS mechs, felt like you accomplished something.

[Riptor]

Kanatta Jing, on 06 September 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Oh silly person. Downgrading the stock builds is exactly what they will have to do.

Hard deviation from cannon on the topic of clan tech to keep some semblance of balance, means making it look and feel like a Timberwolf despite being on a diet.

Somhow i feel more offended by you calling me a silly person then the usual stuff being thrown around in these forums... thats weird.

But hey... i am sure all the clanners on the forums will grab their torches and pitchforks when suddenly half a clan mechs initial loadout vanishes into thin air.

After all we are not talking about two or three tons of equipment vanishing. And also this community is certainly not known for being very vocal about stuff like that.

But seriously.. i dont think the weight decrease will be touched.

Up till now the only changes to chassis where relocation of hardpoints.. theres no precedence of them taking away stuff from mechs.

[torgian]

All of you are silly to think that you'll be getting anything for C-Bills.

My bet is that they're gonna force you to pay to buy clan chassis.