142 replies to this topic

[akpavker]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

Akpaver, we had worse than this happen in Closed Beta. I'm pretty sure this to shall pass. I'd rather this hit now than when It begins to count. When the Clans arrive.

agreed. all c-bills earned by me now will be saved for clan mechs.

[Joseph Mallan]

akpavker, on 12 August 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

agreed. all c-bills earned by me now will be saved for clan mechs.

After I buy and master my Battlemaster... My cash will be used v The Clans.

[SamsungNinja]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Samsung you have the mentality I was preaching months ago. I used to say a player who has a lower K/D but high Assists is a better team mate than a kill hog. You also appear to be fiscally responsible too

I will be looking for you. Hope we can drop together.

I'll look forward to it.

Edit: Sorry if I came off like a tool. I get really, really tired of veterans trying to be the vicarious voice of the poor, lowly n00bs who can't fend for themselves. It seems to be a trend in F2P communities.

It's a straw man argument and it drives me nuts.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 12 August 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[MaddMaxx]

FatBabyThompkins, on 12 August 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Son, you have no idea how much I've already spent on this game. Oh wait, don't like me jumping to conclusions that you're young or even a male? Because that is exactly what you've done here. Jumping to conclusions.

My friends and I are exactly the type of customers PGI wants. We've already spent hundreds of dollars here. I'm not saying how much I have personally, but it is more than some of my friends combined. We now all do not see a good outlook for a ROI. We've played for about 1.5 months and were starting to drop more cash as the future was looking good. But with the last several patches, faith has been shattered. Bad decision after bad decision do not make your paid customers want to spend even more money, especially if they were satisfied with an already grindy experience only to see that double. PGI just pissed on all of their customers. They outright said this reduction was due to 12 vs 12, yet new information from Paul says he just wanted to reduce CB income. That is shady and outright lying to your customer base.

The next time you want to insult someone, please get your facts straight. Or better yet, keep the Genetic Fallacy and Ad Hominem out of the discussion.

Son, as you so quaintly paint everyone. You have a choice. Make one and then stick to it. Calling the Dev "liars" simply shows your true colors. Perhaps you would prefer to grind for Tanks instead.

My gripe was with the "Free": players griping about the supposed "Grind". How do they expect PGI to carry forward. On the "Free" players backs?

[FatBabyThompkins]

MaddMaxx, on 13 August 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Son, as you so quaintly paint everyone. You have a choice. Make one and then stick to it. Calling the Dev "liars" simply shows your true colors. Perhaps you would prefer to grind for Tanks instead.

My gripe was with the "Free": players griping about the supposed "Grind". How do they expect PGI to carry forward. On the "Free" players backs?

Not sure of your intentions here. I called you son and then described the action as an assumption to show that you are assuming things of forum members without facts.

In this very specific case, yes PGI lied. I am calling them on it. They said it was due to your ability to get increased rewards for 12 vs. 12, not because they wanted to reduce CB income levels and push towards MC and premium time. Recent evidence does show Paul wanted to reduce CB income levels. They did and called it something else. That is lying. I attacked the issue from the original stated intent: 12 vs. 12 would net you more CB. I showed it to be false. The PGI reduced CB income information came out after this post went live.

You are very hostile MaddMaxx. Keep it civil and discuss the merits of the change. Ultimately, when discussing if 12 vs. 12 would net you more income and thus the reduced income levels, PGI wanting less CB income on a whole is a red herring. You're not acknowledging any of the argument and saying it doesn't matter because of a different, but relatable, argument. Ignoratio elenchi.

[Galenit]

Maybe they should have made it this game with a monthly fee, its a niche game ....

But we feel the pain of free to play, its more expensive and dumb down for the masses that do not even know what a mech is.

Edited by Galenit, 13 August 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Dephylr]

best way to counter the bs c-bill nerf is to quit and pray pgi takes the damn hint. I have not played in a week and i feel great.

[SamsungNinja]

As these things tend to go, veterans get in a huff and say it's going to make the game suck for noobs. Well, I've been here 3 weeks and this game is awesome.

Whatever they're doing, they're doing it right. I've managed to recruit 5 friends to this game so far.

And all but one of us have monetized. DEM COLORS, BRO. SO P2W

Edited by SamsungNinja, 14 August 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[DemonRaziel]

FatBabyThompkins, on 13 August 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Recent evidence does show Paul wanted to reduce CB income levels. They did and called it something else. That is lying. I attacked the issue from the original stated intent: 12 vs. 12 would net you more CB. I showed it to be false. The PGI reduced CB income information came out after this post went live.

Is there a statement from PGI on the reduced earnings? Other than what was mentioned in the patch notes, that it is to reflect the higher amount of 'Mechs... If so, could someone please post a link or a quote? I can't find anything on the matter.

[FatBabyThompkins]

DemonRaziel, on 14 August 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Is there a statement from PGI on the reduced earnings? Other than what was mentioned in the patch notes, that it is to reflect the higher amount of 'Mechs... If so, could someone please post a link or a quote? I can't find anything on the matter.

Entire topic dedicated to the conversation: http://mwomercs.com/...rning-too-much/

Direct link to twitch.tv stream where Paul said that yes, we were making too much: http://www.twitch.tv...3373414?t=58m0s

[Huge]

This is to short circuit any "JUST DO BETTER! THERE ARE MORE MECHS SO YOU CAN DO MORE IF YOU'RE GOOD AND MAKE EVEN MORE THEN BEFORE!" dead end line of thought.

[DemonRaziel]

Thank you.

[Troutmonkey]

Quote

Troutmonkey
Aug 07 07:07 (PDT
Hello,
I am writing to you as I am very concerned about the recent reduction in CBILL earning.
The patch notes stated the change was to balance the extra potential earnings from an extra four enemies, however this has not worked as intended.
In 8v8 I average about 120-170k CBILLs (with 200k for really really good games) per win without premium time or a hero mech. Usaully the payout for a loss is around 70-100k
With the new changes I recently had my absolute best game ever, with a match score of 110 and MVP status, but only earned me 150k. Unfortunately most wins only net 80-110k – worse than a loss in the old system.
What’s worse is that match losses are only earning about 60k, regardless of my apparent efforts/kills.
Running my Hero Mech (yes, I am a paying customer) only slightly improves the situation, but the net result is still a reduction of around 30% CBILL gain.
This is ultimately compounded by the fact that matches take about twice as long as they used to, resulting in a massive reduction in CBILLs per/hour.
Please return CBILL earnings to previous values.
The grind was bearable before, but now it is simply too much to take, and I will not be purchasing premium time to compensate for this.
Regards,
Faithful MWO player
Troutmonkey

Quote

Reppu
(MechWarrior® Online™)
Aug 12 09:17 (PDT)
Hello Troutmonkey


Your feedback and suggestions are appreciated! However to better reach the developers with your ideas and suggestions, please post here: http://mwomercs.com/...ng-suggestions/

Please be aware that even though the devs do read the forums and especially the suggestions one, they rarely reply to any thread so they can concentrate on actually building the game. Also, the community representatives read all forum posts and compile then send to the devs the most relevant and constructive feedback on a weekly basis.
As one can imagine, if the devs start responding to everything, it would become a never-ending back and forth, and game development itself would suffer because of this.
Regards,
Reppu
Senior GameMaster
MechWarrior® Online™

Letter and reply from PGI

Edited by Troutmonkey, 14 August 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Kushko]

DemonRaziel, on 14 August 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Is there a statement from PGI on the reduced earnings? Other than what was mentioned in the patch notes, that it is to reflect the higher amount of 'Mechs... If so, could someone please post a link or a quote? I can't find anything on the matter.

On the IGP channel on twitch Paul was on voice with NGNG while they were playing and was asked what he thought about the new earning rate and said something in the lines that he/they thought it was too high before. It is somewhat unclear if by before he meant on the 12v12 testing servers or did before mean public 8v8 pre earning nerf.
Although judging just by PGIs track record the nerf was intentional and poorly concealed behind the whole "we just want you to make as much before and lowered the income so that you wouldnt be making a button of money with the new 12v12".

[Martin Oberhofer]

the problem is, it IS killing the game right now for new Players
It takes tem ages to max 1 single Mech - these of us having 10 or more completed builds having trouble building up an other one, but we can go hunting with our maxed variants - new players are thrown against us with trial mechs or rather stock builds making it even harder for them to get in the game, lets face it, a complete build is between 15 and 25.000.000 earning below 100k per match (wich you hardly excess in trial mechs or near stock ones) it takes ages

The actual values drive the hole thing to the wall, wait for the release.
People will try, sign off and they WONT CAME BACK

I personally wont spent any more real money on premium time -> i get now 1/3 less for my € than before the nerf -> remember the real money price for premium hasnt dropped at all = fewer cbills for the same €

[FatBabyThompkins]

I have made some compilation, formatting and consistency changes to the OP. It should flow better and I have placed the study information at the beginning of the post. Latest study shows a 43% increase in match length, 12-16% reduction in performance rewards, and 74.6% reduction in salvage rewards. The sample sizes are small. To bear any real weight we would need significantly more information. However, the study does bare witness to the general consensus that a significant C-Bill reduction occurred. Combined with Paul's statement that a general C-Bill reduction was warranted, it does not surprise me that we are seeing a general 30-50% reduction in C-Bill revenue per hour. It does concern me that we were fed misinformation, the reduction was for increased potential revenue in 12 vs. 12, rather than wanting C-Bills revenue reduced across the board.

[DemonRaziel]

It insults me that they thought us so stupid we would not notice the reduction (and would attribute it solely to not scoring enough kills/assists etc. on the increased number of enemy 'Mechs).

If they kept the reduced rewards for kills/assists/spotting etc., but would return the salvage bonus to pre-nerf values, the overall reduction would not be so severe (but there would still be a reduction, because scoring points on more 'Mechs than you used to in 8v8s is quite rare and the matches tend to take a bit longer) and most of us would no longer feel cheated.

[KuruptU4Fun]

It boils down to this guys, the economy has fluctuated in the past due to changes needed, it has now, they are collecting data to see if it needs to be adjusted again. Odds are it will fluctuate in the future, it's the rise and fall of the tide. If you expect the changes made here recently will be reverted and your c-bill earnings restored to you than you are deluding yourselves.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 14 August 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[FatBabyThompkins]

KuruptU4Fun, on 14 August 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

It boils down to this guys, the economy has fluctuated in the past due to changes needed, it has now, they are collecting data to see if it needs to be adjusted again. Odds are it will fluctuate in the future, it's the rise and fall of the tide. If you expect the changes made here recently will be reverted and your c-bill earnings restored to you than you are deluding yourselves.

I agree. Unfortunately, this large of a percentage change will draw the ire of many, myself included, especially when their are seeds of misdirection. I am quite certain that if they said they wanted to reduce C-Bill income that their would be less of an outcry (still a lot mind). They could also have said it was for testing purposes to see how people spent their money (now) in a resource tight economy. It is also a good test to see how close to equilibrium you are on C-Bill vs. MC. I do not fault them other than shadiness and a sense of punishing your already paying customers (if you had hero mechs and premium before, you're just as impacted as everyone else).

[Ronious]

The C-Bill reduction only really hurts new players. If you have a founders tag and complaining shame on you. How much free Premium Time did PGI give us. Right now I am the guy you can't buy anything for because he has everything. I don't even look at the reward screen anymore. I look at the damage and kills and move on the next round to pew or be pewed. Gone are the days of swapping engines, although i do occasionally slum it and have to exchange modules from one mech to another, Even that is beginning to feel uncivilized. The point is I won't feel the sting of the new economy. We should be arguing new players receive better bonuses to relieve that initial grind. The game only really gets fun when have your own mech to tweak. I am afraid that many new players will be frustrated by their early game and quit.