52 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

IDK, I never really liked the Lancelot back in my TT days, and I think part of it was simply the artwork was ...bad. The Bubblehead simply didn't fit the rest of the design, the thing made Kate Moss look beefy, etc.

But I also always thought it looked like the Annihilator's anorexic kid sister. Too tall legs, massive thigh gap, oddly sloped torso, arms that didn't work with the torso, and a bubble head on an elevated giraffe neck.

So, anyhow, that is kind a the family dynamic I went with when trying to make one that I would be willing to use in my TT campaigns. So far, this is what I got.

VS 2.0
For those who claim I am stubborn and don't listen, etc. You are right. And I don't care, lol. But I do listen IF the suggestion makes sense and fits with the desired vision and goal. Listening to one suggestion made a previous suggestion I had dismissed essential, as the shoulder mount arms simply did not look right with the other mods. So in fact, instead of tweaks, I ended up with a clean sheet re-do.

HERE: finish art



Version 1:0


Thoughts?

**Original 2750 design for comparison

and somehow they sold thousands upon thousands of miniatures based on these.....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 August 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

Looks nice, but I fear that even if they used it as concept art it would end up too close to a bigger blackjack.

When trying to design mech you have to make sure that the standard mech pose in game looks as impressive , the standing at attention with arms up high as right after the startup , that's why I think it would look similar to a BJ .

[Bishop Steiner]

Nik Reaper, on 09 August 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Looks nice, but I fear that even if they used it as concept art it would end up too close to a bigger blackjack.

When trying to design mech you have to make sure that the standard mech pose in game looks as impressive , the standing at attention with arms up high as right after the startup , that's why I think it would look similar to a BJ .

Eh, no I don't have to worry if it looks impressive. I have to worry if it makes "sense" (ok, loose concept with giant stompy combat robots) and is functional/true to canon. Maybe if I was designing Anime I would, but I prefer Battletech for the industrial/functional feel it (at least used to) tries to represent.

The Lancelot was designed as a replacement for the Rifleman, and has similar "recoil-less" arms (why Stackpole thought recoil-less meant ANYTHING in conjunction with the design, IDK), mounted high up to improve it's ability and field of fire as a sniper and anti-aircraft design.

[NautilusCommand]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Eh, no I don't have to worry if it looks impressive. I have to worry if it makes "sense" (ok, loose concept with giant stompy combat robots) and is functional/true to canon. Maybe if I was designing Anime I would, but I prefer Battletech for the industrial/functional feel it (at least used to) tries to represent.

The Lancelot was designed as a replacement for the Rifleman, and has similar "recoil-less" arms (why Stackpole thought recoil-less meant ANYTHING in conjunction with the design, IDK), mounted high up to improve it's ability and field of fire as a sniper and anti-aircraft design.

A thought that comes to mind (for me without even looking at the original concept art) if you want to give it a ridge peeker is giving the PPC in the side torso a pod on top of the mech's torso (like the thunderbolt's and thor's missile racks) rather than inside the torso. Keep in mind I've never seen a lacelot so I'm just talking out my ***, as I do most of the time. It's just an idea of mine.

[Bishop Steiner]

NautilusCommand, on 09 August 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

A thought that comes to mind (for me without even looking at the original concept art) if you want to give it a ridge peeker is giving the PPC in the side torso a pod on top of the mech's torso (like the thunderbolt's and thor's missile racks) rather than inside the torso. Keep in mind I've never seen a lacelot so I'm just talking out my ***, as I do most of the time. It's just an idea of mine.

original 2750 TRO image

[Nik Reaper]

While I support the functional mech look, we are more and more coming to have mech that look the same, and while it makes sense ( all cars are looking more the same as there is only really 1 or 2 optimal aerodynamic outlines ) this is a big robot stomping game , of witch little makes sense and you could afford to make the arms longer or have a before the shoulder arm extension and the legs could have something to make it look a bit different than all the others.

The feel and the look of mech for a while now is becoming uniformed and while it's nice to be streamlined from a developer standpoint players like my self would like some distinctions to our mechs , but what is most practical is probly what will happen.

[Bishop Steiner]

hence the posted canon art.

The idea is to maintain the concept of the original, while (hopefully) improving on the 5 yr old with a crayon chicken scrawl art FASA commissioned.

This mech is an EXISTING chassis, NOT an original design. Hence I follow the design concept of the original piece.

And speaking as an Illustrator, I feel Alex's designs have much more distinction between them then most Anime designs do where everything runs to the same degree of silly exaggeration. There are exactly TWO points of commonality between this and the existing game art: 1) It's humanoid and 2) It has shoulder mounted anti-aircraft style gun arms, ala exactly TWO other designs, the Jagermech and the Blackjack. If anything, it would make it look more liek a generic humanoid were I to follow your suggestion on the arms, IMO.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

IDK, I never really liked the Lancelot back in my TT days, and I think part of it was simply the artwork was ...bad. The Bubblehead simply didn't fit the rest of the design, the thing made Kate Moss look beefy, etc.

But I also always thought it looked like the Annihilator's anorexic kid sister. Too tall legs, massive thigh gap, oddly sloped torso, arms that didn't work with the torso, and a bubble head on an elevated giraffe neck.

So, anyhow, that is kind a the family dynamic I went with when trying to make one that I would be willing to use in my TT campaigns. So far, this is what I got.


Thoughts?

**Original 2750 design for comparison

and somehow they sold thousands upon thousands of miniatures based on these.....

Amazing redesign!
My only suggestion is to make the head antennas thinner and less like ears.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 09 August 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Amazing redesign!
My only suggestion is to make the head antennas thinner and less like ears.

doable. They were whips originally, wasn't 10)% sold on them, but since am still in the WIP phase, can try them, or non symmetrical antenna, or wand types.



?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 August 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

Well, I can see you are set on your opinion so no point having any arguments here, also I don't understand your fixation on anime designs , and my final thoughts are that the legs are becoming generic, and that the actual 3d model turns even more generic , so the art would need to be even more different so that when they translate it to a model it still has some flavor.

[Bishop Steiner]

waiting for constructive feedback that doesn't go completely against the basic design concept, such as Odanan posted. Telling someone they need to change their pickup truck picture to look like a Ferrari serves no real useful purpose. (Especially is the point is to design a pickup, not a sports car)

The reasons for me being "set in my opinion" are plainly stated and explained. If that bothers you, I am not sure what I can do to help with that?

And the homogeneous look of in game MWO mechs don't really have a whole heck of a lot to do with the concepts being posted as fan art. Since I have been given no actual detailed feedback on how the legs look generic and like those in games (and looking in game files, I don't really see it), and changing the shoulder/weapons change the whole design, hence invalidating the point of DOING a canon design, I am at a loss as to how to please you.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 August 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

You don't have to even try, my point is just that as well as things are they are becoming too homogenous and that that is not a good thing.
I hope the designers find a way to keep it sensible but different , look to the catapults new image, sleek and aircraft like , though it has the "non humanoid" going for it. It's not so much an opinion of the art here it's self but the 3D model I expect they would make of it that I find lacking , so by extension I feel the art should be more way out there in order for them to make a 3D version that feels different

[ChapeL]

I'm not sure how to interpret the legs on your design. Are they regular humanoid legs ( as the feet seem to imply) or are they more like the Nova Cat Omnimech's legs ? ( as the knee joints seem to indicate.. which would be an interesting twist also)

Regardless, a definite improvement over the original

+1

[MAXrobo]

What if you tried lowering the arms and raising the PPC up to the top of his shoulder? in the original art it seems like the arms are slung under the slanted torso. You could extend where the current shoulders are to be something reminiscent of the victors guards covering the top actuators. you would probably have to make the guns slightly smaller to make it fit. Taking from what NautilusCommand said, you could raise the PPC to give it a more sniper like look as well. I would keep it embedded in the torso, but raising the PPC up to about head level and extending the barrel a bit would balance the look so all the guns aren't all at the same height.

your design looks really good, the original mech looks pretty horrible and you made it look like it would actually be able to stand. I love what you did with the legs, they seem very similar to the centurion re-design. The change to the more antenna looking ears looks really nice as well.

[Bishop Steiner]

MAXrobo, on 09 August 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

What if you tried lowering the arms and raising the PPC up to the top of his shoulder? in the original art it seems like the arms are slung under the slanted torso. You could extend where the current shoulders are to be something reminiscent of the victors guards covering the top actuators. you would probably have to make the guns slightly smaller to make it fit. Taking from what NautilusCommand said, you could raise the PPC to give it a more sniper like look as well. I would keep it embedded in the torso, but raising the PPC up to about head level and extending the barrel a bit would balance the look so all the guns aren't all at the same height.

your design looks really good, the original mech looks pretty horrible and you made it look like it would actually be able to stand. I love what you did with the legs, they seem very similar to the centurion re-design. The change to the more antenna looking ears looks really nice as well.

I've got a demo of it with lower slung arms, and a higher PPC laying around somewhere. Not saying I won't revisit it, jsut that it lost the profile and look of the Lancelot by doing so, with the versions I have tried so far. I still want to tweak the head a little more, too, tbh.

we will see.

[Nik Reaper]

One thought comes to mind, could you make 2 projections or just outlines ( frontal and L/R side ) side by side of what you would expect the 3D model of it look like , with correct proportions but not needing too much detail and color the different section hit boxes in different color?

Edited by Nik Reaper, 09 August 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nik Reaper, on 09 August 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

One thought comes to mind, could you make 2 projections or just outlines ( frontal and L/R side ) side by side of what you would expect the 3D model of it look like , with correct proportions but not needing too much detail and color the different section hit boxes in different color?

Possibly. I haven't done many orthos in the past, and the ones I have done are less than, eh, proffesional grade. I think I have done them for the KGC and Stalker, and that's it so far. But I do usually have in mind it's hitboxes, not so much cuz of the game, but also just for thinking about target size.

MAXrobo, on 09 August 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

What if you tried lowering the arms and raising the PPC up to the top of his shoulder? in the original art it seems like the arms are slung under the slanted torso. You could extend where the current shoulders are to be something reminiscent of the victors guards covering the top actuators. you would probably have to make the guns slightly smaller to make it fit. Taking from what NautilusCommand said, you could raise the PPC to give it a more sniper like look as well. I would keep it embedded in the torso, but raising the PPC up to about head level and extending the barrel a bit would balance the look so all the guns aren't all at the same height.

your design looks really good, the original mech looks pretty horrible and you made it look like it would actually be able to stand. I love what you did with the legs, they seem very similar to the centurion re-design. The change to the more antenna looking ears looks really nice as well.

As for the laser size, it's not so much that I mean for the large lasers to be massive, as that I wanted them to be looking well armored and have cooling jackets.

[venomman2]

Bishop,
Amazing work as usual.

Just want to offer a constructive critique of your design.
-While the 2nd version has antennae closer in size to the TRO artwork, I think the larger, blade antennae provided a very unique aspect to the design. I believe you should revert to the larger ones
-I think the arms would be fine for PPC fittings but not the large lasers on the base variant. The TRO artwork has a knightly feel to it, with the round-ish head and lance-like arms. I think if you reduce the overall diameter, taper it down some, but then add some concentric ribs from the base of the barrel to maybe 1/3 to 1/2 the way up, you'll achieve both a lance-like appearance *and* the cooling jacket effect.

EDIT: Grammar

Edited by venomman2, 09 August 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

Oh, they don't have to be straight lines and the right angles , just an outline so that it's easier to get a feel for it's proportions , like how wide is the pelvis , how wide are the shoulders to the waist and so on, and the side one to see how long are the arms and how "thin" the mech is.

[Bishop Steiner]

modified the lasers, tried the coils, didn't like it, so simply made them thinner and longer.