29 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

Just hoping that the Project Phoenix mechs won't be oversized, walking torsos. I would hate to think I spent 80 bucks for such.

Same goes with the Orion too. After all the months of waiting, don't let us down.

[Johnny Reb]

Yeah, time will tell. If the locust is as big as a Commando then its DOA.

[Wintersdark]

I don't understand their scaling at all. Now, I understand density differences and whatnot, but I'd expect a much more dramatic difference in profiles when you go from Atlas to Commando.

Particularly with the mediums. Smaller size would be an advantage for them, and mediums really need some sort of advantage. But instead, all the new 50/55 ton mechs are enormous.

The hit boxes though are what really scare me. I just dont understand how that gets through QA, given how blatantly obvious the problem is the moment you click on the mech in the mech lab.

The hitboxes

[GODzillaGSPB]

PGI has never even comented on the scaling as far as I know. I've given up on that. We will have oversized mechs and they will be in a disadvantage but PGI simply don't care!

[Arete]

GODzillaGSPB, on 15 August 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

PGI has never even comented on the scaling as far as I know. I've given up on that. We will have oversized mechs and they will be in a disadvantage but PGI simply don't care!

PGI has replied numerous times about the scaling. Their point of view is that the scaling is about right since they've taken density into account. If they are right or not is up for debate (*cough*stalker*cough*), but saying they don't care is a bit harsch.

[Destructicus]

My biggest fear is that the Shadow Hawk will be the same size as BattleMaster and Thunderbolt
Mediums should be medium, not pretty much as big and thick as heavy/assaults

[Angel of Annihilation]

Arete, on 15 August 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

PGI has replied numerous times about the scaling. Their point of view is that the scaling is about right since they've taken density into account. If they are right or not is up for debate (*cough*stalker*cough*), but saying they don't care is a bit harsch.

Seriously, a 60 ton Quickdraw is as dense as a 90 ton Highlander?

Yeah I have hear PGI claim this BS but I can't honestly think they believe we we will actually believe this BS. Therefore saying the don't care is on the money and not harsh at all.

[Takony]

Wintersdark, on 15 August 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

They I don't understand their scaling at all. ...
The (S)hitboxes

Fixed for you.
The guys who do/finalize the mechs' scaling do not test different versions (sizes), hell probably do not even lift play the bloody game, certainly not on a level that would highlight the various advantages/disadvantages of different mech sizes/hitboxes in minutes.
They conveniently just don't give a f***k about putting them, in different sizes/ with differenc hitboxes on Public Test Servers either.
Oh wait that would mean they were interested in community feedback in the first place.
And as they told us in ATD42, 42? IIRC, the process is so complicated from bones to textures, etc, that it is very hard to adjust.
Errm, right. So all the crap mechs WILL stay crap for all eternity.
Stalker or Awesome? Cataphract 3D or Quickdraw? Trebuchet or Hunchback ... oh wait, the hunch! Centurion? ***** Please!
Not to mention the point is now kinda moot, since we don't earn enough cbills in an affordable time frame to consider trying sub-par mechs and decking them out with engines/modules.
BIG things came in July, and in August. But not good.

[tayhimself]

Viktor Drake, on 15 August 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

Seriously, a 60 ton Quickdraw is as dense as a 90 ton Highlander?

Yeah I have hear PGI claim this BS but I can't honestly think they believe we we will actually believe this BS. Therefore saying the don't care is on the money and not harsh at all.

Absolutely right. The QKD is CLEARLY made from HGN bits. They took the giant legs as is which explains why full armor QKDs get legged every other match before getting killed.
It's much faster to make mechs using parts from other mechs. So yeah don't give a ****.

[Onmyoudo]

The Locust will probably be alright, the size of a Jenner or so. The Shadow Hawk will be the size of a Kintaro. The Thunderbolt will be the size of the Battlemaster (shorter by about 4 inches) and they will both be the size of the Quickdraw/Highlander.

Soopar akyurate predictions, I guarantee.

[Ngamok]

I found a pic of the Locust:



With legs. The others scale off this.

Edited by Ngamok, 15 August 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Arete, on 15 August 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

PGI has replied numerous times about the scaling. Their point of view is that the scaling is about right since they've taken density into account. If they are right or not is up for debate (*cough*stalker*cough*), but saying they don't care is a bit harsch.

People already showed them that the density argument makes no sense. They've compared Catapult and Stalker and it does not add up. The Catapult is almost as big - front and side - as a stalker, despite a 20t difference.

Density aside: It's also a balancing problem. But, hey, why would the game need balancing, right? ^^

[Wintersdark]

GODzillaGSPB, on 15 August 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Density aside: It's also a balancing problem. But, hey, why would the game need balancing, right? ^^

This. The mech's size, and how it's hitboxes are laid out, are very critical balancing components. I just don't think PGI puts much time into considering and balancing them.

[Ransack]

I really hope they are scaled in a manner that makes sense. I finally got one of those Kintorsos on my team, My gosh that thing is huge.

[Tennex]

shadow hawk is gunna be huge

[BlueVisionWarrior Online]

"Scaling" is a crutch for bads to complain about losing. Come at me, bro.

[DONTOR]

Ransack, on 15 August 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I really hope they are scaled in a manner that makes sense. I finally got one of those Kintorsos on my team, My gosh that thing is huge.

They arent actually that huge, smaller than a trebuchet and only slightly biggger than a cent. Its the center torso/ hitboxes that are huge!

[MeiSooHaityu]

BlueVisionWarrior Online, on 15 August 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

"Scaling" is a crutch for bads to complain about losing. Come at me, bro.

Sort of...yea.

I think there is some legitamacy to it, but overall, people think the torso is the sole reason they are dieing. If PGI did shrink the scale, it would be the hitboxes. If PGI then altered the hitboxes, it would be back around to the alpha striking.

As more time goes by, I do think the scaling is a tiny bit too big, but it still wouldn't make people happy if they shrunk the mechs, it would just make them go and complain about something else.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arete, on 15 August 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

PGI has replied numerous times about the scaling. Their point of view is that the scaling is about right since they've taken density into account. If they are right or not is up for debate (*cough*stalker*cough*), but saying they don't care is a bit harsch.

since the usual cherry on top of their "density " argument has been that the Catapult's arms are mostly empty (hmmmm.... up to 10 tons of missle racks, plus possible ammo, empty? Then why do my missiles get critted so easy? Shouldn't most shots pass through all that "empty" harmlessly?) and that their modelers go by "what feels right", I have to say, that they may care, they just don't care what WE think (or logic actually should actually be telling them.)

Because, you know, standard military doctrine is to build machines as large as possible with as much empty space as one can, because that doesn't make them into, IDK bigger targets or nuthin.

And Unless the Altas is hollow, and the Spider is made of solid lead, there is no remote "density explanation" for the MASSIVE size discrepancy between the two. 3x the mass does NOT equal 3x taller, AND wider AND deeper.

[Ransack]

BlueVisionWarrior Online, on 15 August 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

"Scaling" is a crutch for bads to complain about losing. Come at me, bro.

Scaling is also what allows me to shoot the Kintarget in the head, while I can't see the Blackjack right next to him.

Quote

They arent actually that huge, smaller than a trebuchet and only slightly biggger than a cent. Its the center torso/ hitboxes that are huge!

Possible. but from the cockpit of my Victor, it looks roughly the same size as an Awsome. The Bucket and Cent are too big too in my opinion.