31 replies to this topic

[Orchid Vein]

Hello! As the title says, I am a really new player (like a few days so far) and I was reading the forums and found the smurfy thing. Anyways, I really really like the look of the missle arm mechs like Stalker and CPLT. I have ever since playing mech warrior with my dad when I was a kid :-P

So, I like the idea of missles and played around with the design thingie and came up with this Stalker- 3H. I would maybe get the misery but 30$ is a bit too much for me for a mech.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f46bbd063b2862a


That is the build and I was wondering if this seems like a good enough way to make the stalker for being in mid to front line pug packs. My other mechs are the sarah jenner (love the paint job!) and a CPLT-C1 that is also LRM 15 and medium lasers.

So this is my introduction post and a check to see if I am doing things rationally or are way off base. xD

Thankies for checking it out and any responses!

Also, I don't know how to post the smurfy link where it is just the clickable mech name. >.< Sorry

[Chrithu]

Ok so first things first:

You absolutely want to avoid XL engines on Assault mechs. It lowers survivability with them immensely because on all of them the side torso are easy targets. And experienced pilots will focus their fire on side torsos to strip you off your weapons. So my first suggestion would be: get rid of the XL engine, pack up endo Steel and consider using LRM 15s instead of 20s and SRM 4 instead of SRM 6 to free up weight for a STD Engine.

Other than that the build looks good: TAG allways is a good idea, the BAP is a nice Bonus to uncover light ECM Mechs that get close allthough I'd personally scrap the BAP too to free up weight for bigger engine.

That's how I would roll in it:
STK-3H Modified Version

[Orchid Vein]

First, thankies for giving me a revised blueprint to look at.

There are so many things to understand when making a mech. So, I like the speed increase of the big engine a lot! I didn't know XL engines were bad for big mechs but I guess that makes sense that little mechs would shoot the side armor. I was told never to ever use ferro or endo steel on anything bigger than a medium because of the slots it takes. I see that endo steel has a place in big mechs!

Is the beagle probe a bad idea for large mechs that use missiles? Also, what is the ruling on assault mechs using anti missile systems? I think it was taken off this build because of slots for the endo steel though I am just guessing.

Sorry for all the questions, I am just really trying to learn the why in all this mix and match. :-P

[TheCaptainJZ]

AMS is useful for any mech, but not lights so much. 1.5 tons affects them a lot more and they can run fast enough to avoid missiles. You might be able to get by without since we now have 12 v 12 so long as you stay near other allies.

[Orchid Vein]

Oooh okie. In that case, I think I can shimmy the revised build to still include the AMS just so I have some protection when crossing between tall things. :P

I am curious then about the accessories for LRMs. Beagle probe seems like a good idea but that was dropped too, again maybe for slots. Tag seems better than narc for me. Is tag good to have on my artemis mech?

[Modo44]

BAP is useful when taking lots of LRMs or SSRMs, as it provides faster lock, longer sensor range, and counters ECM near you.

You will eat a lot of missiles, because you will rarely be able to dodge once any are headed for you, so yeah, take AMS. It also helps a bit with short-range missiles.

TAG is helpful for countering ECM and getting an even closer missile spread. Its usefulness depends on your playstyle. The more you will be facing your targets directly, the more it will make sense. If you plan on hiding a lot, both TAG and Artemis might go for bigger launchers/more ammo.

ES is used even in Atlas builds, although it has its downsides -- you usually get worse heat for more speed/bigger weapons. The heaviest mech that can make sense with FF is the Cataphract 3D.

[Orchid Vein]

This clears up a lot of the reasoning for taking or not taking endo-steel and ferro. Thankies.

So that confirms that AMS is a keeper and I think in my case, maybe tag will be a take sometimes and not others. I think that in the puggie herds, I will be facing directly a fair bit of mechs because I am slow and sometimes herds get circled. lol

Love the information from you guys, this is making more sense as to why.

[Rascula]

Have you considered the best LRM boat yet <In my opinion anyway> the Awesome 8R?
It has more than enough room for multiple LRm15s with Artemis and the obligatory tag. With a much better torso twist than the stalker.
Whichever mech you choose the LRM game can be very rewarding and a fun way to play, just remember its all to easy to concentrate too much on your targets and get cut off from your team, stay close to them and the enemy light mechs will have a much harder time trying to wolfpack you!

[scJazz]

Don't get the 3H get the 3F... it has better torso movement and more options.

STK-3F

I left 2 tons free so you can add more Med Lasers, more heat sinks, more ammo, TAG, up the SRM4s to 6s, etc. Standard 275 Engine so it gets a free Heat Sink Slot. You can actually add Endo to this hull. It will give you 4 more tons to play with but things get cramped. If you do probably the best use of the tonnage is for a Standard 300 Engine.

BAP is a requirement for LRM using mechs since their range is 1000m and your targeting range is only 800m without BAP (1000m with).

AMS is a requirement for any assault mech since otherwise your just one big fat slow stupid LRM target.

There are of course MANY other 3F configurations available.

[Modo44]

Rascula, on 10 August 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Have you considered the best LRM boat yet <In my opinion anyway> the Awesome 8R?

Also the best target evah, which dies from a stern look once someone finds you.

[Orchid Vein]

Ah ha! Even more to decide on. Okie, so AMS is a given, and maybe the 3F will let me have bap and tag for my missile goodness. Again, I appreciate the blueprint to see how it works out. Standard engine has been the consensus with everyone so far and I will aim for being as fast as possible with my other list of goodies.

So it seems the Awesome is a bullet magnet? That's fine because I adore the look of the missle arm stalker mechs anyways. So using this with DHS, AMS, BAP, and the biggest SRMs I can, I will have a decent chance to do meaningful damage! This is shaping up to be a loverlie mech.

The info is exactly what I was looking for.

[SGT Unther]

The Stalker 3F is good, I really enjoy mine. However I would avoid going into a brawl until you've at least completed some of the Basic Pilot Efficiencies. I say this because without any of those complete the Stalker handles like a freight train. One other thing to be mindful of is the torso twist range of the stalker is only 60 degrees where the 3F is 84 degrees (The Atlas does about 80 degrees IIRC). I think someone posted this info before but anyways it is what it is. Anyways a well built and well run Stalker can really rack up the damage numbers. I've broken 1k damage many a time with my Stalker before 12 man.

Another assault mech I would recommend would be the Highlander, they are the most maneuverable of the assault mechs without being an 80 ton want-a-be heavy mech. The limited arm movement is tricky to get used to but I'm having a good run in my HGN-733C.

The Atlas is a good assault mech as well and has the one of the best arm movement ranges in the game and a decent torso twist range.

The Victor and Awesome are the hardest assault mechs to use well IMO. The Awesome in my opinion is at its best when it is fighting at range, because if it tries to brawl at close range it's hard to miss its CT. The Victor is a much better brawler than the Awesome but lacks the armour for it's size to be a 'lead the charge into the enemy brawler' if that makes sense. The Victor IMO is at it's best when rolling with other heavy mech brawlers like Cataphracts or supporting other assaults in a brawl.

In the end it really helps to roll with other assault mechs because then there is less chance to be the target of focus fire.

Anyways sorry for the long post, once I start on something like this I just keep going.

[Orchid Vein]

That was very thorough, thank you muchly. I am liking the idea of the 3F now because the twist and such is going to make me not so unwieldy and I even get room for the bap.

I think the awesome and atlas are not the same style, or so it seems. I will try the 3F build linked earlier with a TAG and another ton of ammo.

This has brought me SO much farther into knowing what and why for building this mech. I am absolutely glad to be back into the mechs like back when but I forgot how detailed it is. (which is a great thing, just requires research and/or super helpful people :P)

I suppose now I merely need to earn that mountain of C-bills to afford it. xD

[TheCaptainJZ]

Smurfy's website lists all the turn angles and twist angles and any other stat you can think of. mwo.smurfy-net.de

[Chrithu]

Hi just to clear that up: The AMS in my proposed build was taken out because I usually allways roll without it in favor of double heatsinks or ammo or armor. As you can see my build also has two more heatsinks than yours had. You could safely remove two DHS and put the AMS back in. AMS is a good idea to have on any mech as you were told before. I just usually leave it out in favor of ammo or heatsinks or armor. But that is pure personal preference.

As for the BAP: It has it's advantages but if you have fully upgraded "Advanced Sensor Range" Module the BAP becomes kind of obsolete (allthough both items stack their effects). I love BAP on my small and fast mechs because it helps vs ECMed light mechs a lot. On larger mechs I usually safe the 1.5 tons and two slots for heatsinks and/or armor. But as with the AMS that is a pure personal preference thing.

Probably that is the hardest to learn but at the same time most enjoyable thing about MWO: There neither is a single best mech/chassis nor a single best build for a particular chassis. It all depends on the combination of pilot and mech. I for instance do fairly good with any heavy mech and some medium mechs. On lights and assaults I perform a lot worse.

Edited by Jason Parker, 10 August 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Screech]

If you plan on using a Stalker I would advise the 5S. It has the exact same weapons load-out as the 3F but lacks the torso twist. It does, however, have twin AMS, which works out as a poor man's ECM.

[Koniving]

Orchid Vein, on 10 August 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Is the beagle probe a bad idea for large mechs that use missiles? Also, what is the ruling on assault mechs using anti missile systems? I think it was taken off this build because of slots for the endo steel though I am just guessing.

Beagle is ideal for larger mechs using missiles, as lights are not always reliable at giving you targets. It also speeds up your locks.
AMS is essential. If possible, try the Stalker 5S, it can have two AMS, which means you'll be as protected from LRMs as two mechs working together.

Avoid endo steel takes up too many slots if you have a lot of need for heatsinks. Also remember even though it says you can use two LRM-20s at once, I seriously feel there's a penalty for using them at the same time, so fire one at a time in chainfire (backspace on the group to chainfire to set that up once you put weapons into the groups).

Now, in the armor allocation for the side torsos you want them to be very high to the front. You're a missile boat essentially, if someone's behind you it's because you got too close. You need that armor in front to last much longer against enemies ahead of you at long range lobbing PPCs, Gauss Rifles, and LRMs at you. The surface area of the front side torsos is 6 times larger than that of the rear side torsos.

[luigi256]

If you have not already decided maybe you should try the 5S with the two ams it is very friendly to new players especially those that hate missles being used on them.
This is my stalker 5S build

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d3973bef3e8cde3

If you want to add tag take out a med laser and put tag on. Problem with my version I have run into is the lack of ammo seems to run out half way or three fourths of the way into a match. Also when you get to closer range it runs hot as you use the medium lasers but it is not horrible at least to me.

An issue you may have with the 5S though may be the tubes. Meaning that the lrm 20s in the arm will not fire all at once but will complete in two salvos. Not too big of an issue to me but there is the 3H that has two twenty tubes in the arms if you would like to check that out

Edited by luigi256, 10 August 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[Wolfways]

Just a note about using an XL engine in a Stalker.
I have played a Stalker a lot and tbh i'm really thinking of using an XL because in nearly all matches where i lose a side torso the center torso is destroyed almost instantly. It's extremely rare that i survive a match with only one side missing. I could probably count them on one hand, from hundreds of matches.

[MercJ]

On XL engines in Stalkers:
I've mastered the 5S and elited the 3F, and I've basically discovered that if you like to run cool (like I do), you need the extra room for heatsinks instead of engine. When using a bigger XL engine (since it uses side torso slots), I couldn't pack in as many double heatsinks, and essentially ran out of crit slots - it seemed using standard engines allowed for more heat-efficient builds. Of course, that all depends on your piloting style - just wanted to pass along some ideas is all!

Edit: Also wanted to add I agree with Wolfways above, if you lose half of your armament by losing a side torso you're usually only seconds from being destroyed anyway, so an XL isn't always a "never do this" thing. However, you will more than likely have your side torsos targeted and destroyed first, since assault CT armor is usually pretty high - so weigh that as you will.

Edited by MercJ, 10 August 2013 - 05:48 PM.