293 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathlike, on 10 August 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

The crit to internal damage conversion buff "address" the core problem with MGs, but the current state of MGs makes it somewhat OP...

However, the Spider-5K actually has a role, instead of being the "Tickle Me Mech". Now, the Spider-5V just sucks.

It had a role before.
Scout.

ColonelMetus, on 11 August 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

machine guns are fine the problem is the 4 machine gun spider

And will be made worse by the 12 Machine gun Piranha.

[Purlana]

Just make MGs have the same stats as small lasers already.

Edited by Purlana, 12 August 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Deathlike]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

It had a role before.
Scout.

Yes... a role anyone and any mech can have... except it isn't really rewarded. Even missile rain is easy to produce when you have 50% more eyes on the battlefield.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I was going to say that I thought the Crit damage was a bit to high on MGs, but I think my main issue is hit detection on the small mechs that carry them and not actually the MGs themselves.

I suppose I will hold off judgement for now.

[Oriius]

Given their short range, and need for continued fire (i.e. no torso twist) I'd say they are decent. Overpowered? hm, tough call.

My jager-DD does use them, and has for quite some time. For max-cheese: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...88e7ca33328dfcb

I think most people don't like the spiders with them, which I think is a hit reg issue more than the mg's. Worth keeping an eye on, but I'd suggest fixing those hit reg issues before any nerfs should go down.

[Joseph Mallan]

verybad, on 11 August 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

ORLY?
"Machine GunsThough rarely carried by BattleMechs, the high rate of fire produced by machine guns makes them excellent anti-infantry weapons. There are Heavy and Light machine guns."
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=197
Mine is better than Sarna also.

You Mean Catalyst Game Lab's Is better... Unless you actually wrote that on their page.

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathlike, on 12 August 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

Yes... a role anyone and any mech can have... except it isn't really rewarded. Even missile rain is easy to produce when you have 50% more eyes on the battlefield.

Whether you agree or not is not important. I doubt most people playing Spiders (TT or otherwise) would argue that that particular Spider sucks Yen Lo Wang!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 August 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Whether you agree or not is not important. I doubt most people playing Spiders (TT or otherwise) would argue that that particular Spider sucks Yen Lo Wang!

Pre-patch the only good Spider was the 5D. Post-patch, the only really bad Spider is the 5V. A 100% increase in viable Spiders can't be a bad thing, can it? Too bad there's no way to help the 5V.

[Joseph Mallan]

St. I don't disagree with your argument, BUT there are going to be bad builds. Assault Mechs built with 5 small lasers, Light Mechs with Zero Weapons.

The 5K was created specifically for anti infantry use. The TROs said that is what it was for. That PGI couldn't think about that and go, "Maybe we should make up our own!" Is mind boggling since we don't have Infantry in game. Where's the logic in removing a more powerful weapon with better range and damage

Quote

SDR-5K - The -5K Spider removes one of the Medium Lasers and replaces it with two arm mounted Machine Guns for anti-infantry use.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 August 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 12 August 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Pre-patch the only good Spider was the 5D. Post-patch, the only really bad Spider is the 5V. A 100% increase in viable Spiders can't be a bad thing, can it? Too bad there's no way to help the 5V.

There is a way... add an energy hardpoint to its arm. Done.

Of course, I'm sure there are "balance implications", but I have a problem just trying to see the value of 12 JJs on a short range "zombie" or a 1 ERLL nuisance.

[Ken Fury]

Horrace, on 12 August 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Everyone with machine guns needs to stop abusing them until they are fixed.

Switch to something that's been balanced recently like a ppc.

Did AC/20s get fixed? Or LB-10Xs? I don't want to use exploiter guns!

[Joseph Mallan]

Last I heard Ken the horrible +24 heat is still on dual AC20s.

[Maliconus]

Tennex, on 10 August 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

MGs core atlas from back in 14s
SL core atlas from back in 21s.

MGs also destroy internal components faster.

MG has Ammo ( Explosive/Limited ) SL does not (Heat/Unlimited) Trade offs

[Joseph Mallan]

Maliconus, on 12 August 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

MG has Ammo ( Explosive/Limited ) SL does not (Heat/Unlimited) Trade offs

Machine guns are supposed to be, at best, equal to a Small laser for damage.

[Tombstoner]

General Taskeen, on 10 August 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

OP.

Nobody EVER asked for a CRIT buff to the MG.

That being said, MG's are not that big of a deal when any weapon can just out right strip and destroy internals straight up with full digit damage.

What people did ask for is an MG that makes sense that damages armor and internals for close to the same damage like every other weapon in the game. MW3 and MW4 are the best examples of an MG that just worked.

And what we got was the crit seaker MG PGI wanted.
crit seeking MG's make scene with long times to kill.
killing weapons and equipment was supposed to be important, but like most things in this game it doesn't mesh well.
No one asked for a crit buff cause time to kill is so fast it doesn't matter.
OP thinking that massed MG's on multiple lights is overdoing it for mg's is the effect Pin point damage has on the game.
it forced people to stip armor from the rear just to survive in a normal match. now your rear armor is so week a light can gut you in seconds faster then an assault from the front. this is what the OP is complain about and why people run 4x mg spiders.

Things are working as intended. lights are dangerous to assaults. ssrms2 helped keep them down but since the change lights are back and balance is restored.

[Pinselborste]

MGs are fine currently, but small laser could use a range buff to 120 and a burn time decrease, also a decrease for the SPL.

[Bhael Fire]

MGs are finally usable.


Just leave them that way.

[Shlkt]

MGs are usable now and I think they offer a reasonable risk-vs-reward for a short range weapon that requires continuous time on target.

MG ammo might need a nerf, though. I've still never managed to run out of ammo despite only carrying 1-2 tons of it.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

The 5K was created specifically for anti infantry use. The TROs said that is what it was for. That PGI couldn't think about that and go, "Maybe we should make up our own!" Is mind boggling since we don't have Infantry in game. Where's the logic in removing a more powerful weapon with better range and damage

While I don't agree that the MG is infantry-only and think that your use of the 5K lore is irrelevant (sure, it's added for anti-infantry use, but it would still do 8 damage to a 'mech if fired on one), that's a bit beside the point here. As you say, we don't have infantry in MWO, so the MG needs to be viable against 'mechs or not be in MWO at all.

Since the devs in their infinite wisdow decided to make the MG a "crit weapon", I'm actually quite pleased with the way it works right now - even though I've fought them tooth and nail to make the MG a regular damage-dealing weapon for the last nine months or so.

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Machine guns are supposed to be, at best, equal to a Small laser for damage.

And they are - against armour (although there's still the issue of SLs only having to stay on-target 25% of the time vs 100% for the MG, arguably still giving the upper hand to the SL). They only surpass it once armour is breached.

[Utilyan]

In close, close range.......A close range weapon is better then a long range......GO FIGURE.

MGs have killed mechs in all mechwarrior games. If you think MGs are just vs infantry.......I know your a noob.

And if your a TT nerd then we should do as much damage as an AC/2, 400 damage potential on the ton. Prob more since 1 ton of ac/2 TT is 45 rounds, here its 75. So ammo in mg tt is 200 would be 355?

711 damage potential in one ton of MG ammo.


As is its still very nerfed..........Its horrible against armor, GREAT VS UNARMORED. Exactly what you wished for. Now eat it.



If you want MGs to be good for nothing......you ought to just say so. We don't want MGs to be good at anything. Just say it damnit.


Personally I would agree with a MG that is completely harmless to everything......but I should get full range and a bunch of pretty tracer rounds and more sound effects. Like if I had a M2 50 cal. that means i can shoot its 6000m or so max range......

I tend to play the same way a kid plays with his GI Joes..... I'll take cool looking and looks over "effectiveness" and rather put on a show.

I'm the one who will run the all flamer mech.