96 replies to this topic

[MonkeyCheese]

Everyone here seems to be missing the point that Light Mechs are getting screwed over again this mech cycle, and that their specific roles are always getting ignored. My main question is WHY?

And no this is not about lagshield, lagravens, lagspiders, hitboxes and so on, those are all problems and bugs that have or will be solved eventually.

For starters we are missing light mechs that should have been released.

Founders Round 1
Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult, Atlas

Round 2
Commando, Centurion, Dragon, Awesome

Round 3
Raven, Cicada, Cataphract, Stalker,

Round 4
Spider (last released light mech), Trebuchet, Jagermech, Highlander,

Round 5
Flea (MIA?? because of MASC), Blackjack, Quickdraw, Victor

Round 6 (Current)
Missing Light mech and no the flea dosnt go here, Kintaro, Most likely the Orion, to be announced Assault mech (King Crab yes?)

Round 7 Pheonix mechs
Locust, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster


As for Hero mechs Lights are getting screwed over here too

Light
Deaths Knell

Medium
X-5, Yen lo wang, Golden boy

Heavy
Fang, Flame, Ilya Muromets, Firebrand

Assault
Pretty Baby, Misery, Heavy Metal, Dragon Slayer


Furthermore @ PGI can we please have some information about the following

Increased rewards for light mechs in relation to scouting, especially now that 12v12 is out light mechs can support the team by scouting but the rewards are small and the 20 ton mechs could really benefit from this.

Increased rewards for light mechs who spend entire rounds capping basses to try to win a match, seriously for a good light mech pilot its better to just go fight and die instead of doing nothing and capping to ensure a win. Light Mechs cap bases faster when compared to the other weight classes?

Current status of the Speedcap, netcode and MASC as the 20 ton mechs wont have much of a chance if they are speed caped to 150kph like most of the other lights and the cicada.

Legit Knockdowns when? As a light pilot I miss knockdowns, back in closed beta I use to be so much more aware of my surroundings and the positions of other mechs and this made me a better pilot who always tried to survive as it wasn't only weapons that could kill you because other mechs bodies were just as dangerous. Now days everyone has become sloppy including myself. Also dont get me started on the glitchynes of the current collisions.


So why are lights being ignored?


Thoughts and further discussion anyone?

[Ralgas]

speedcap? they cant do much more than they do now. Masc aside the lights we have have been capped short of where they should be because of this, new lights aren't going to add much beyond disappointment or abuse due to the current bugs/limits.

you can't gloss over them (the bugs) and then ask why a section of the game most affected by it isn't expanded on..........

Edited by Ralgas, 11 August 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Ralgas, on 11 August 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

speedcap? they cant do much more than they do now. Masc aside the lights we have have been capped short of where they should be because of this, new lights aren't going to add much beyond disappointment or abuse due to the current bugs/limits.

you can't gloss over them (the bugs) and then ask why a section of the game most affected by it isn't expanded on..........

But lagshield/speedcap problems and MASC for the flea aside as I just think we deserve some kind of status update on these areas.

There is no reason PGI cant just work on the light specific role warfare and rewards as well as release other Mechs from 25-35 tons range.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 11 August 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[Khobai]

Lights in general need a revamp because of the speedcap.

If a 25 ton mech like a Commando cant outrun a 35 ton mech like a Jenner, then whats the point of the Commando? Lighter mechs needs to be able to outrun mechs that outgun them or theres no point to them existing.

[Shadey99]

Khobai, on 11 August 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Lights in general need a revamp because of the speedcap.

If a 25 ton mech like a Commando cant outrun a 35 ton mech like a Jenner, then whats the point of the Commando? Lighter mechs needs to be able to outrun mechs that outgun them or theres no point to them existing.

Um in TT/P&P the Commando maxed at 97 kph and was a striker, much like the later Panther. The problem for MWO is that lights here lack the features that made them so useful and common in those versions of the game. Light strikers were meant to run with other lights and provide fire support, but that works much better when things like cost, drop weight, and even the much hated battle value are used for balance over a system like MWO that ultimately is balanced by number of players.

When you could drop an entire 4 person lance of lights for the cost of a single assault mech, it is very compelling to bring an entire 'scout lance'. But MWO can't do this, a scout lance takes away from much much heavier firepower which leaves lights only capable of more speed at a lower price than for larger vehicles. We could see a heavy for instance run a 400 or 400XL and run in the range we see lights at now, but the cost of mounting that engine is huge and limits what the mech could run for firepower (As we already see with mechs like the quickdraw and Victor).

[New Day]

They should also stop ignoring medium mechs. And heavy mechs. And gameplay balance. And CW. See where I'm going with this?

[Ralgas]

Horrace, on 11 August 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

This is the type of thing you can do with the cryengine.

It also what happens when 5 man teams from crytek come in and help . Last i heard Mwo wasn't getting much support at all from them even with bugs.

Reality is all this thread could produce is PGI admitting there's issue's they need to solve before they can move forward in certain areas, which is already obvious but not good enough apparently. Not trying to be too harsh, but if they stopped to explain every little detail everyone wanted out here nothing would get done.

Especially now, reality is release code should be locked in during the next 2 weeks for internal QA testing run. Given the state we're in and how much we're missing they have better things to do!!

Edited by Ralgas, 11 August 2013 - 03:29 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

+1

Lights (all mechs really) need better rewards for objectives.
Also, the light class does deserve more variety and choice when it comes to mechs and loadouts.

Currently the Raven 3L is the only mech with no pointless balistic hardpoints, SSRM capable AND ECM capable.
(ok, the Com 3D too)

Give them something new and juicy to play with. (I don't see the Locust being good IMHO)

[Caswallon]

Anything that give Lights more love gets my vote.
But as the above comments point out there is a game issue to be solved before lights can shine as we all would like them too. But for now there is simple stuff you could do E.G.

Any Mech that caps gets a cap reward based on how much time they spend of a Cap point... Real simple, Lights will get the majority of this due to there nature Meds and the fast heavies will prolly come in next and assaults dead last.

Win or lose a Lt that does one of their jobs and caps on conquest; but loses, deserves to walk away with better than 100 xp if the rest of his team decide to go play Assault on a Conquest mission..

Other buff that might work right now would be: Target lock on times changed to reflect mass.
More mass = more signal reflection = faster target lock & info. The converse is also true. This reflects the simple obvious fact Lights are supposed to sneak and scout, Assaults (Sorry Lyran scouts ) don't. Its a bit annoying that sometimes you get into a good observation position to help out your LRM totin' buddies and a mech that is deeply involve din combat and not even facing your way suddenly see you despite the fact your just quietly sitting there. (OK I know sometimes the pilot of that mech has a module that grants them uber awareness fair enough) but a few split seconds to observe and duck back would be a nice buff

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Ralgas, on 11 August 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Last i heard Mwo wasn't getting much support at all from them even with bugs.

That is what happens when you choose the cheap option of an unfinished engine.

To the topic, lights are ok.

They are missing one mech, compared to other weight classes, and really neither the locust or flea will add anything of value that we don't really already have.
The Wolfhound would be a logical edition giving them scope for also adding a cannon hero variant but requires clan tech to be available.

[MonkeyCheese]

Caswallon, on 11 August 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

Anything that give Lights more love gets my vote.
But as the above comments point out there is a game issue to be solved before lights can shine as we all would like them too. But for now there is simple stuff you could do E.G.

I understand the game issues taking importance over most of what I listed but thats still no reason for us to be two light mechs behind, that is assuming they release the orion next then a new assault mech. Then there is the hero thing.

[Josef Nader]

Khobai, on 11 August 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Lights in general need a revamp because of the speedcap.

If a 25 ton mech like a Commando cant outrun a 35 ton mech like a Jenner, then whats the point of the Commando? Lighter mechs needs to be able to outrun mechs that outgun them or theres no point to them existing.

Uh, the Commando could never outrun the Jenner. Not in Tabletop, and not according to the current stock-engine formula MWO is using (the other limitation is used to calculate the engine that will allow the mech to hit speed cap). The commando is a giant killer, not a dog fighter. I find it a lot easier to battle assault mechs in my commando than in my Jenner, as SRMs have a much shorter engagement window than lasers, and who cares about spread when your target practically fills the screen? The Jenner is an all-rounder. It can dogfight other light mechs, take down assault mechs, and generally get stuff done without being bad in any one area.

[Devil Fox]

Light's are ignored becasue their trying to get a system into the game that means they can move more at their respectful speed... none of this speed cap nonsense. You'll see when light's do come out again... there WILL be a flood of them just to catch up the back-log.

At present I just see so many issues relating to light's that introducing another chassis will just put on more hate then love for them. Afterall we only got the Raven hitbox fixed, now the Spider's is funky, and HSR issues with SRM's in regards to the small frames of light mechs. Once the systems are fixed and solidly in place... then bring them on!

[MonkeyCheese]

Apostal, on 11 August 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

At present I just see so many issues relating to light's that introducing another chassis will just put on more hate then love for them. Afterall we only got the Raven hitbox fixed, now the Spider's is funky, and HSR issues with SRM's in regards to the small frames of light mechs. Once the systems are fixed and solidly in place... then bring them on!

I will type it out again

That is because the problems with the raven were lagshield related, and the problems with the spider are lagshield/hit registration problem related not hitboxes, hitboxes just mean how much armor is assigned to a certain body part and how well a mech can spread damage from lasers and missiles around these different hit boxes .

Pics taken from this thread here http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/





Firing weapons at these different body parts aka hitboxes will reduce the armor of that location or locations, Firing weapons at these locations and ZERO or only a fraction of the correct damage actually being applied to the mech is not a hitbox problem its a lagshield/netcode/hit registration/state rewind problem.

Sure it may actually be a problem with the coding of the spider battlemech yes but altering the sizes of these hitboxes AKA "fixing the hitboxes" will not solve the partial damage or no damage issues, this kind of problem has nothing to do with stopping them from designing and releasing a new light mech and it clearly hasnt stopped PGI from pushing out larger mechs.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 11 August 2013 - 04:35 AM.

[Coolant]

How are lights ignored? When they can run thru 5 Assaults and Heavies for a full minute and maybe be dark yellow in damage? If anything they should be nerfed...

[MonkeyCheese]

Coolant, on 11 August 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

How are lights ignored? When they can run thru 5 Assaults and Heavies for a full minute and maybe be dark yellow in damage? If anything they should be nerfed...

Fail troll, actually read the thread next time...

[East Indy]

Larger spotting rewards and line-of-sight/NARC/TAG bonuses, as well as meaningful capping credit, do need to be introduced.

Light speed is fine, I think, and could even be capped at 135kph. MASC follows Ultra ACs in being a kind of table-top fan service making little distinction between FASA's weaker ideas, and is hardly a feature PGI needs to ensure.

[XSerjo]

Ok, we can't get Flea because it's too fast for current HSR implementation. But what about Urbanmech? It's slow, it's iconic, it's awesome!

[Ralgas]

MonkeyCheese, on 11 August 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

I will type it out again

That is because the problems with the raven were lagshield related, and the problems with the spider are lagshield/hit registration problem related not hitboxes, hitboxes just mean how much armor is assigned to a certain body part and how well a mech can spread damage from lasers and missiles around these different hit boxes .

Pics taken from this thread here http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/





Firing weapons at these different body parts aka hitboxes will reduce the armor of that location or locations, Firing weapons at these locations and ZERO or only a fraction of the correct damage actually being applied to the mech is not a hitbox problem its a lagshield/netcode/hit registration/state rewind problem.

Sure it may actually be a problem with the coding of the spider battlemech yes but altering the sizes of these hitboxes AKA "fixing the hitboxes" will not solve the partial damage or no damage issues, this kind of problem has nothing to do with stopping them from designing and releasing a new light mech and it clearly hasnt stopped PGI from pushing out larger mechs.

http://mwomercs.com/...general-update/

Quote

Many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well. While it happens across almost all Mechs, it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis.

Doesn't make my point any less valid, and given the last 2 mechs haven't been announced until a week or so before their implementation, we all have no idea what's on the design board or ready to go.

There's enough hate for the title now, last thing pgi needs is another forum meltdown about an op or broken new chassis because of issues not related to the mech.

Edit: at this rate unless there's a big break with the hit reg it's going to happen anyway when the locust hits.

Edited by Ralgas, 11 August 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[Tennex]

lets do medium mechs first.