26 replies to this topic

[Shin89]

First time posting here, and I've only played for a few days, so nice to meet you all! I really love the k2, and I love ppc's, so I've been trying out dual ppc's and dual er-ppc's and I love them. Problem is, I can't seem to find anything to supplement them with. I tried Large and medium but I didn't like the heat build up. Turns out I don't like lasers weapons besides the ppc. Recently I slapped on a single UAC 5 and it did wonders, really enjoyed everything about it.
Question is, with an XL295 and mostly full armor, and no heat sinks(hasn't actually caused much of a problem) I can't fit more than 75 shots total with dual UAC 5's. If I switched to AC 5's, I could fit 150 into the build I'm saving up for. I know dps wise the UAC5 is tops, and I don't usualy go below 35+ remaining amo in a match, but I would like to know is there is a big difference between UAC5 and AC5? Is it better to unload quicker but less, or slower but more? Is 75 shots or 3 tons enough?

Here is the build I had planned on using: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a253bc5f01a7b2e
And sorry for the essay :/

[Modo44]

In my experience, you want 3 tons of ammo per UAC5, maybe 2 tons if you are a super good shot. You would do better with an XL300 (2 heatsink slots -- more room), or XL265 (enough tonnage for 2 Large Lasers).

Your build is pretty hot, and short on ammo. You will not be using those ERPPCs much, and your UACs will run dry halfway through a match. If given the XL295 engine specifically, I'd try smaller lasers, possibly like this (the typical build is 2xUAC5+4xMLAS with an XL300). The UAC5s are the main weapon in this case. If you prefer pepsi as your main weapon, you can take AC5s as backup, like this (still running hot, mind you).

My personal favourite K2 is relatively slow, but it has the ability to stare down most assaults.

Edited by Modo44, 23 July 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[BoxOfAids]

UAC5 ammo runs out INCREDIBLY fast. I usually run 175 ammo on 3x UAC5, and sometimes do run out with still 1-2 enemies remaining on the map. At that rate, you'd need ~100-150 on 2 of them, or you'll run out of ammo too quickly. The thing is that they chew through ammo because they deal their damage so quickly; assuming they don't jam, you can really mess people up if you can keep your sights on them. I suppose if you held back and didn't use them at range to poke with and instead only waited for good opportunities, you might be ok, but you'll still wish you had more.

Your best bet if you're intent on doing this build is going to be to drop the engine a bit and try to fit at least 1 more ton of ammo on it. Otherwise, you'd need to go to AC5s (1 ton lighter each), which would have 120-150 ammo (4-5 tons), +1 DHS if you went with 120. That should definitely be sufficient for a match given their lower fire rate. In either case, you'll probably be running a little hot if you end up firing everything at once and going for all out DPS, but just poking away at range you should have no heat issues, since you can just go cool off if necessary.

Edited by BoxOfAids, 23 July 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Hmmm Try this build


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...776fc0cd1656450

Armament
2x PPC (arms)
2x sLas (torso)
1x UAC5

15DHS
Endo
13 tons of standard armor
AMS

Since you seem to be enjoying the PPCs and UAC's, use them in tangent. Set the PPC's and UAC5 to group 1, and shoot it as if its a normal Sniper Alpha. Pepper targets as a means to finish off weak components with the UAC5 (in this case, you're using the UAC5 as a support weapon to compliment the PPCs, not as a primary weapon)

For group 2, set the UAC5 and the pair of small lasers when targets get within 50meters of yourself. Same rule applies.

The 15DHS, high armor and AMS is to help you with heat management and survivability. Make sure to NEVER stare at your targets. The Catapult is VERY prone to head shots.

Good luck!

P.S. the 15DHS should also be plenty to support two ERPPC if you have them around. Probably better in this mech, anyway.

P.P.S. 3 tons of UAC5 ammo is plenty for a single cannon. I'm currently using a single UAC5 on my Cat-3D and I only need 2 tons (although, accuracy and fast kills is the best way to save ammo, too)

Edited by mwhighlander, 23 July 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[warner2]

Have you tried a gauss rifle? It's a good partner for 2 PPCs. Ask PGI :~)

I tweaked your build to use 2 PPCs (not ER): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19cf22c5adbd43c

You'll be pumping out the damage on any map with that build. Use your decent speed to stay 500 - 600m away from your target and stay close to the main group to get help with any pesky light 'mechs.

Some prefer ERPPCs for extra range, depends entirely on you're play-style.

Edit: I also tweaked the armour, a little off the back and more on the front.

Edit2: Also be aware that a gauss rifle in the torso with an XL engine is a calculated risk, and quite a big one. If the gauss rifle explodes, which it can easily do when your armour goes in that location, so will your engine, and so will your 'mech. On the other hand if your armour goes in that location, your (XL) engine is likely to go anyway. So if I was levelling a K2 and had a gauss rifle lying around, I'd give this build a try out. The profile of a K2 means that you take a lot of damage on the CT, anyway.

Edited by warner2, 23 July 2013 - 01:40 PM.

[Chrithu]

Even though it is considered cookie cutter or cheese nowadays I allways prefered my K2 Sniper Setup to be 2 ERPPC, 1 Gauss, 2 SL with a XL 315 Engine, Endo Steel and FF Armor and 2 Tons of Gauss Ammo. You can change positions fast and do good at flanking the enemy.

[Shin89]

Thanks for all the responses! I have already learned that my Cat's head is a huge target, but it seems that if I twist to shield with my arms I survive alot longer. Better to lose a ppc than my whole mech right? In regards to the low amo, I tend to use UAC5 medium to close range, when I have a good shot lined up or when I sneak up from behind. Maybe a single shot along with the ppc from range before moving to cover. If I switch to the normal ac5, is the .5ish second delay really noticeable?
I like what you're saying highlander, that's basically what I aim for; be accurate, and deal big damage quickly. With my play style I haven't had problems with heat even with the er ppc's, but I think I should spend some time with normal ppc's to get a better feel for em. the 90 minimum range is pretty tiny, should be able to manage it no problem. About the gauss, is 30 shots really enough?
When using more ML's or just dual LL's, it's more about the dps right? Because of the larger spread, but quite a few more volleys before critical heat? In that case, I had originally considered using AC2's. They had better dps than an AC5, and comparable damage up front( 8 in 2 seconds versus the 10 in AC'5s). Even considering UAC5's, dual AC2's might work just as well with the way I play, dealing 28 or 30 damage to a single component from support range or twisting to absorb more damage up close?

[Elizander]

BoxOfAids, on 23 July 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

UAC5 ammo runs out INCREDIBLY fast. I usually run 175 ammo on 3x UAC5, and sometimes do run out with still 1-2 enemies remaining on the map.

Ammo will become an even bigger issue when 12v12 comes out. Right now we might be able to get away with minimal ammo but once you have to kill 4 more mechs those builds are gonna suffer.

[Shin89]

I've heard alot of people referring to certain builds as cheesing, but in this game most of them seem to have pretty serious drawbacks. I mean, you can get ridiculous damage output, but if you're a glass cannon isn't that more or less balanced? I watched a stream where someone ran a K2 with 4 ppc's; did amazing damage, but even with better coordination from teammates with voice chat, lights pretty much bullied him up close and were too hard to hit incoming with their high speed.
With 12v12, you'll also have 4 more teammates though. Even with minimal amo builds, even decent coordination should be more than enough. Most games I've been in(relatively few mind you) if either team is well coordinated, it's pretty much rolling the team that isn't. And if both teams are, you're more likely to die from being focused down before you run out of amo.

Edited by Shin89, 24 July 2013 - 01:38 AM.

[Elizander]

Shin89, on 24 July 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

I've heard alot of people referring to certain builds as cheesing, but in this game most of them seem to have pretty serious drawbacks. I mean, you can get ridiculous damage output, but if you're a glass cannon isn't that more or less balanced? I watched a stream where someone ran a K2 with 4 ppc's; did amazing damage, but even with better coordination from teammates with voice chat, lights pretty much bullied him up close and were too hard to hit incoming with their high speed.

That's true. Most of these builds are okay at range where it's easier to aim torso mounted weapons. Not so much up close, but the problem is getting up close in the first place. It's not impossible to charge in but if not done as a coordinated group those few brave enough will be killed in an 8v2 8v4 situation. If you are forced into a long-range fight or forced to charge in alone it feels unfair, but it does have its problems.

As for the OP's concern, I personally would rather run out of ammo while taking out one two mechs early because it gives your team a number's advantage early on and you can just fall back to a fire support role after expending your ballistic weapons. It works fine now for 8v8 but it might not turn out so well for 12v12.

[Shin89]

I see what you mean. I know this is a beta, but this game could -really- use voice chat. Going up against teams who do out of game chat, it's practically game over before it starts most times X_x
I have a few more questions about the K2. I assumed that dps is not necessarily a priority with sniper builds, but what kind of weapons are good for a brawler? I used lasers alot when I first started but found them kind of lacking, but they seem the most common. How much armor is too little or too much? I usualy go for an even 64/20 on the CT, or maybe 60/24 but some of the builds I've seen go for less in the back. Why is this? I guess an extra few points in the back won't matter if you get flanked, and you can just twist to avoid back damage. Come to think of it, how does the armor system work? Is it point for point damage protection, or is it some percentage scaled down?

Edited by Shin89, 24 July 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Mawai]

All the catapults are great mechs ... I like all of mine .. but the K2 is among the most versatile for direct fire weapons.

- the 2 x gauss rifle setup with 2 medium lasers can be extremely effective
- I have seen 2xPPC, 1xGauss builds
- 4 Large laser used to be popular but you need to fire them in pairs now due to the heat stacking penalties
- 2 x UAC5 + some lasers can be very effective
- 2 x AC5
- 2 x AC20 - slow but packs a punch at close range
- 2 x AC10
- 4 x PPC - heat stacking penalties require firing in pairs now
- 2 x ERPPC, 2 x PPC

The great thing about the K2 is that it can be effective with almost any of these builds depending on whether you want to brawl or play sniper support. In either case, it is usually more effective backing up another mech than running off to engage on its own (but I think that can be said about any mech).

[EyeDie I]

cats have a huge torso so an xl engine will make you vulnerable erppcs arent for the extended range as much as their damage isnt reduced at closer than 90 meters

[Greyrook]

I wouldn't presonally say the K2 is a great beginner mech, but this is my weird sniper build that works for some reason. I personally feel that if you're going to try PPCs, you need to go all in and support it with heatsinks, so this is what that looks like.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ac13109c7973a0

It's ugly as all hell, but I cut my teeth on a 2xPPC, 2xMPL build which has become unusable with the firing delay and heatscale. Adding the extra PPC curiously made all the difference, but it's not for the faint of heart. Takes a ton of heat management especially on the new, hotter maps, and is squishy as all hell without the speed that I'm used to. But, it can dish out a respectable amount of punishment, though I've been trying some other builds while everything is in flux.

[Shin89]

I've settled into using 2 er-ppc with 2 AC5. I would have liked to UAC5, but I like going at a decent clip, and the delay on the ac5 has me learning to be more patient, which is never bad. I managed to fit in 4 tons of amo with an extra DHS. Does pretty well for my playstyle. Although, after leafing through some of the feedback threads, I am beginning to feel bad using a sniper build. :/ I play them in any game that has precision weapons, but from the gist of it it seems like people feel it's the only kind of build that works in this game.
As for the builds, I don't really like using more than 2 of any kind of PPC. With the AC5's, I still have a nice 30 dmg alpha, and I can fire off a few shots while I cool down if anything gets too close. Also makes for a good support weapon to weaken arms n legs of nasties bothering my team .

[Benjamin Davion]

I use a 4LL, 2MG build with DHS and the biggest XL engine available. Can't recall a lot of details at the moment. The heat-scale doesn't even touch me because I almost always chainfire and only alpha the lasers for A.) a guaranteed kill or B.) a stationary mech with a cockpit I can hit. I have had more decapitations of other mechs with my K2 than any other.

[Benjamin Davion]

Shin89, on 24 July 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Thanks for all the responses! I have already learned that my Cat's head is a huge target, but it seems that if I twist to shield with my arms I survive alot longer. Better to lose a ppc than my whole mech right? In regards to the low amo, I tend to use UAC5 medium to close range, when I have a good shot lined up or when I sneak up from behind. Maybe a single shot along with the ppc from range before moving to cover. If I switch to the normal ac5, is the .5ish second delay really noticeable?
I like what you're saying highlander, that's basically what I aim for; be accurate, and deal big damage quickly. With my play style I haven't had problems with heat even with the er ppc's, but I think I should spend some time with normal ppc's to get a better feel for em. the 90 minimum range is pretty tiny, should be able to manage it no problem. About the gauss, is 30 shots really enough?
When using more ML's or just dual LL's, it's more about the dps right? Because of the larger spread, but quite a few more volleys before critical heat? In that case, I had originally considered using AC2's. They had better dps than an AC5, and comparable damage up front( 8 in 2 seconds versus the 10 in AC'5s). Even considering UAC5's, dual AC2's might work just as well with the way I play, dealing 28 or 30 damage to a single component from support range or twisting to absorb more damage up close?

Definitely guard that big glass cockpit. The first time I took my K2 out (4LL, 2MGs), another K2 (strangely the same build, though he later told me he had no DHS or XL engine) parked himself on top of the Citadel on River City. I followed my team along the lower side and found him standing there, motionless, picking at my team with his lasers. I realized he hadnt seen me and took the time to line up a perfect head-shot. 4LL slammed him simultaneously and damn near decapitated him. After that he panicked, jumped off the Citadel and tried to run. I circled around him and popped him in the head with heavy MG fire and a couple more laser bursts, no more cockpit. The rest of the mech was barely scratched. I rarely die from cockpit kills in my three Cats, but I attribute this mainly to the fact that I never stop moving, use XL engines in all of them, and, in the models that have them, jump-jet around like a drunk Spider pilot.

[Shin89]

Benjamin Davion, on 01 August 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Definitely guard that big glass cockpit. The first time I took my K2 out (4LL, 2MGs), another K2 (strangely the same build, though he later told me he had no DHS or XL engine) parked himself on top of the Citadel on River City. I followed my team along the lower side and found him standing there, motionless, picking at my team with his lasers. I realized he hadnt seen me and took the time to line up a perfect head-shot. 4LL slammed him simultaneously and damn near decapitated him. After that he panicked, jumped off the Citadel and tried to run. I circled around him and popped him in the head with heavy MG fire and a couple more laser bursts, no more cockpit. The rest of the mech was barely scratched. I rarely die from cockpit kills in my three Cats, but I attribute this mainly to the fact that I never stop moving, use XL engines in all of them, and, in the models that have them, jump-jet around like a drunk Spider pilot.

You don't have to tell me twice lol. I'm the same way, constant movement unless taking cover and a nice XL every time.

[Baba Yogi]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f4db7c55daac4cb

[TheKildar]

Personally I just cant bring myself to buy the K2, im not much of a missile boater EVER, so i would be reluctant to flush it out with elite efficiencies, and i already have a mech that is in my opinion way better for its role, the Firebrand, which i run with Dual PPC's and a gauss, DHS, and have full efficiencies for. runs at 80.6kph with speedtweak and can fire the PPC's all day long even on a hot map. Best DFS mech i have ever used and I've used almost nothing else since i started playing, aside from my beloved Hunchie Brawlers. I can also reccomend the Stalker 3F, great fire support, slow but good armor, and the stalker mech variants have enough diversity for any pilot to find one he likes, as with all assaults heavy on the c-bills to get to Elite. Anyways to get back on topic there are some good builds already suggested in this thread but if you really want to get the most out of it you need those elite efficiencies and it can be hard to do well in the other Cat's without experience and/or a good team.