48 replies to this topic

[Damocles69]

Purlana, on 12 August 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

They do? Because all my atlas builds run endo and DHS...

Well ya got me there :x

[Purlana]

BTW what you want is http://www.sarna.net..._Engine_-_Light

[Randalf Yorgen]

Dimento Graven, on 12 August 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Thank you for restating the OP (I think you can also go up and edit the OP to get it stated more clearly too, btw).

I don't think I agree with your premise that it helps lights, considering that even if this were possibility, you have to give up tonnage to equip it. Tonnage that for the very nature of a light 'mech being a light 'mech, they ain't got a lot of to spare. Heavier 'mechs, maybe mediums, but definitely heavies and assaults would see more benefit as they have the tonnage to support this sort of mod, AND, are actually more easy to hit with their MUCH broader torsos.

Keep thinking up ideas like this though... More ideas is a good thing!

C.A.S.E. is designed to be a blow out panel somewhere on the torso of your mech that allows the force of the explosion to vent to the outside rather than transfer in along the Internal Structure locations. The entire torso section is completely destroied but any extra damage is bleed off rather than transfered to the next inner section (CT). Engine shut down after three slots are damaged/destroied so CASE really only has value in the Inner Sphere when used with Standard Engines. Inner Sphere XL engines have three crits in the side torsos so losing one kills the engine so using case with these is kind of pointless.

CLAN XL Engines are smaller and only have TWO critical slots int he side torsos so using CASE with them is a very smart thing to do as it can keep the OMNIMECH int he fight that much longer. If I remember correctly CLAN CASE doesn't weigh anything either but still takes a crit... (I could be wrong with that)

So for now, using CASE with IS XL Engines is a waste of a crit and some tonnage and is kind of silly, Using it on a standard Engine makes more sense. When the Clan Tech gets here it will be a whole new ballgame.

[Hellcat420]

xl engines are fine and do not need any sort of buff like this.

Randalf Yorgen, on 12 August 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

C.A.S.E. is designed to be a blow out panel somewhere on the torso of your mech that allows the force of the explosion to vent to the outside rather than transfer in along the Internal Structure locations. The entire torso section is completely destroied but any extra damage is bleed off rather than transfered to the next inner section (CT). Engine shut down after three slots are damaged/destroied so CASE really only has value in the Inner Sphere when used with Standard Engines. Inner Sphere XL engines have three crits in the side torsos so losing one kills the engine so using case with these is kind of pointless.

CLAN XL Engines are smaller and only have TWO critical slots int he side torsos so using CASE with them is a very smart thing to do as it can keep the OMNIMECH int he fight that much longer. If I remember correctly CLAN CASE doesn't weigh anything either but still takes a crit... (I could be wrong with that)

So for now, using CASE with IS XL Engines is a waste of a crit and some tonnage and is kind of silly, Using it on a standard Engine makes more sense. When the Clan Tech gets here it will be a whole new ballgame.

case has no effect on clan xl engines.

[Purlana]

Hellcat420, on 12 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

xl engines are fine and do not need any sort of buff like this.


case has no effect on clan xl engines.

It protects you from ammo explosions, since losing a side torso won't take you down.

[Damocles69]

So consensus is this is a terrible idea. Oh well. Just throwing science at the wall and seeing what sticks

[Hellcat420]

Purlana, on 12 August 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

It protects you from ammo explosions, since losing a side torso won't take you down.

wrong. clan xl engines survive losing a side torso because they only have 2 engine criticals in each side torso, and it takes losing 3 engine criticals for your engine to die.

[Damocles69]

Would payload nessicarily increase though? As someone said it would be similar to removing endo-steel

[Purlana]

Hellcat420, on 12 August 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

wrong. clan xl engines survive losing a side torso because they only have 2 engine criticals in each side torso, and it takes losing 3 engine criticals for your engine to die.

And if you don't have case, your going to lose that CT during an ammo explosion...

[Damocles69]

Wouldn't we only see an increase in high-tonnage, low-crit weapons like gauss rifles and large lasers?

[Team Leader]

I think we should stop with the side torso loss=instant death with an XL.

It should severely cripple you, maybe take out 4 engine heat sinks (4 in each side, 2 in the middle because... Idk, XL takes up more space so less room for HS?) and decrease your top speed by 10-20%.

If we keep XLs the way they are, clan XLs will just utterly dominate and IS ones will be complete garbage. After all, a blown side torso in a clan mech XL is just one half of the mech gone, whereas a blown side torso on an IS mech with an XL is a totally dead mech. Unbalanced much? I'd say so.

Oops got so lost in my own ideas I totally forgot why I was talking about them... Hmmm... Um let's see maybe CASE could like increase the damage a side torso's internals could take without destroying engines but regular equipment would still be vulnerable. Idk.

Edited by Team Leader, 12 August 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Hellcat420]

...

Edited by Hellcat420, 12 August 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Well I think the idea is to extend CASE functionality where if it's in the side torso's it also protects XL engines, or maybe for a new type of CASE specific to that function.

[Purlana]

Dimento Graven, on 12 August 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Well I think the idea is to extend CASE functionality where if it's in the side torso's it also protects XL engines, or maybe for a new type of CASE specific to that function.

But then what will be the point of having light fusion engines in the future?

Edited by Purlana, 12 August 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[Team Leader]

Purlana, on 12 August 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

But then what will be the point of having light fusion engines in the future?

I think you have unrealistic expectations about the duration of this games lifespan

[GingerBang]

Damocles69, on 12 August 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

I think this would be a major boost to light and medium mech survivability. Would help survivabilit across the board seeing as how time to kill in this game is so low

Also, this would not be as big of a boost to assaults as the primary limiting factor on them is crit space and not tonnage

i have no idea what you are suggesting.

[sC4r]

well any kind of buff to case would be welcomed
even if i have mech that carries lots of ammo (currently having jager with 10 tons of ammo) most peeps dont use it anyways... like there is no benefit to it... if it caused that like

1. ammo blows up in arm/leg, i have case in torso which prevents explosion spreading into side torso and no damage is taken that would be nice

2. if ammo blows up in side torso it absorbs some major % of damage and if the explosion should destroy side torso instead it will be left with 1 hp

right now having case is waste of slot and half ton since
-most lights/meds have ammo in legs and dont have lot of it
-xl engine mechs gets destroyed anyways if ammo pops side torso so case doesnt help
-it isnt apllied into crit roll

so only mechs that benefit from this **** are big mechs with std engine end even those will be severely criplled should full ammo crate blow up
ehm lets take atlas - if you blow one ton of ac20 in leg thats 140 dmg total, so the damage taken will be 42 to leg + 42 to torso where the case can stop the remaining 56 (that would bring your ct down to 8 hp)... you should be like YES i cant move, i can barely shoot but im alive... this though rarely happens i had atlas and i was legged maybe 1 or 2 times

[Randalf Yorgen]

Purlana, on 12 August 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

And if you don't have case, your going to lose that CT during an ammo explosion...

Exactly, Damage transfers inward, what that means is this. Lets say you have 10 points outer armor left on your left torso and 5 points internal structure benieth is and someone Alphas you with twin PPC and a Gauss in that torso, the first 15 points are absorbed by the armor and internal structure but what happens to the rest of the damage? it transfers to the next inward slotand is counted there. So damage goes from arms to side torso to CT and Legs to Side torso to CT ALWAYS.

Now back to the torso in the example above, lets presume that there were 100 SRM rounds stored in that torso, when the torso was completely destroied that ammo blows up as well so you can add an extra 200(ish) points of damage to the explosion that.... you guessed it.... transfers in to the CT.

CASE takes all the surplus damage from the ammo explosion, AFTER the torso is complely destroied and throws it away so that no damage is transfered in to the CT. Because of this CASE DOES benifit clan XL engines as it limits the engine damage to just two slots and protects the CT from more damage at that moment.

As for thinking I made this up, please look it up for yourself, http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CASE or if you can get your hands on the old Battletech Compendium you could look it up there as well. CASE is already established Tech, Modernday WARSHIPS(2013) have a form of case as do ammo bunkers and several other devices, including the Radiator on some cars, (but it works on cold freezing the lines rather than heat popping it out.)

[Randalf Yorgen]

Team Leader, on 12 August 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I think we should stop with the side torso loss=instant death with an XL.

It should severely cripple you, maybe take out 4 engine heat sinks (4 in each side, 2 in the middle because... Idk, XL takes up more space so less room for HS?) and decrease your top speed by 10-20%.

If we keep XLs the way they are, clan XLs will just utterly dominate and IS ones will be complete garbage. After all, a blown side torso in a clan mech XL is just one half of the mech gone, whereas a blown side torso on an IS mech with an XL is a totally dead mech. Unbalanced much? I'd say so.

Oops got so lost in my own ideas I totally forgot why I was talking about them... Hmmm... Um let's see maybe CASE could like increase the damage a side torso's internals could take without destroying engines but regular equipment would still be vulnerable. Idk.

Every Crit to your engine is supposed to increase your heat generation by a large amount. in TT an engine crit meant 10 extra heat every turn, that's 10 of a max of 30, so in this game every engine hit would drive your heat up 33.333333333% per hit. CASE is working how it should, people just aren't reading up on what it's supposed to do and want to make it something that it is not.

[Purlana]

Team Leader, on 12 August 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

I think you have unrealistic expectations about the duration of this games lifespan

MWO can't die until I get my Direwolf...