4 replies to this topic

[SnowdogJJJ]

I have read a bit (fair amount) on Ferro Armor and Endo Steal - it seems a little better armor for less weight but uses free slots.. yes?

Engines, - XL are faster and lighter but much more fragile, taking up space on your sides so you can get corded (did I say that right) from the back much easier.. yes?

Any other pro's /cons that I should be reading about?

I have a Victor (3 elite actually) 2 have XL's and 1 had STD. What do people prefer to use on Assault mechs in general and why?

This seemed like the place to post this.

Any help and thoughts are sure appreciated.

[scJazz]

Hmmmm I'll repeat some of what I said earlier.

Endo-Steel almost always but once you get into Assaults you will likely run out of room
Ferro-Fibrous is the reverse case almost never but in Lights and multiple Centurion designs it is usable or even desired.

I have a Victor and will be getting the other 2. (Disclaimer: I hate Assaults and the Victor is the only one I have). After running it with XL300, XL280, XL250, STD320, and STD275 I'm actually happiest with the STD275. I also own BattleTech 2nd Edition (1st was BattleDroids) and have been playing BattleTech for 28 years and a few months now. From this I know in my bones that the Power to Weight ratio peaks at STD300 at 19 tons (in MWO the Gyro and Cockpit which are required for everything is added in making it 25 tons. Given that fact and the fact that assault mechs SHOULD move 3/5 in TT i.e. use a 240 to 300 engine which is the sweet spot in power to weight ratio the STD 275 made lots of sense. In the right weight curve, free HS, not XL so my mech actually lives!

It is worth noting that MWO added a curve ball with the way it treats Engines. In Battletech there is no in between. 80 ton mechs use 80, 160, 240, 320, or 400 engines. For movement rates of 1/2, 2/3, 3/5, 4/6, or 5/8 which in MWO Terms is... 21.6kph, 32.4kph, 54, 65.6kph, or 86.4kph.

BTW: You mean CORED as in... cored like an apple.

[IceSerpent]

SnowdogJJJ, on 12 August 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I have read a bit (fair amount) on Ferro Armor and Endo Steal - it seems a little better armor for less weight but uses free slots.. yes?

No, both take free slots (14 slots each) and give you extra free tonnage, neither gives you better armor unless your armor is not currently maxed out and you use those weight savings to increase it. Endo-steel gives better weight savings than ferro-fibrous, so you should always go for it first (if you have slots to spare) and go for FF armor after (if you still have slots to spare).

Quote

Engines, - XL are faster and lighter but much more fragile, taking up space on your sides so you can get corded (did I say that right) from the back much easier.. yes?

Yes, aside from the "faster part" - speed is controlled by engine rating (250, 300, etc.). Std 300 and XL 300 give you exactly the same speed. Also, with XL you die if one of your side torsos is destroyed - doesn't matter from the front of from the rear.

Quote

Any other pro's /cons that I should be reading about?

Std - takes 6 slots in central torso, is destroyed only when CT is destroyed (from front or back, or via overheating / ammo explosions).
XL - takes 6 slots in CT and 3 slots in each right torso and left torso (12 slots total), is destroyed when CT is gone (same as Std engine) OR if either RT or LT is destroyed (also from fron or back / via overheating or ammo explosions). C.A.S.E. doesn't do anything if you have XL engine - loss of side torso kills you outright, so subsequent damage spread into CT (or lack of such) makes no difference.

Quote

I have a Victor (3 elite actually) 2 have XL's and 1 had STD. What do people prefer to use on Assault mechs in general and why?

Std on assaults - RT / LT hitboxes are way too large for XL to be viable.

[Koniving]

SnowdogJJJ, on 12 August 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I have a Victor (3 elite actually) 2 have XL's and 1 had STD. What do people prefer to use on Assault mechs in general and why?

I'll give you a thought on this. It's the risk versus reward for using one. We know the rewards. The risk is that if you lose a side torso, you die. Side torsos are much weaker than center torsos. It thus becomes a question as to "how big is your side torso" or "How easy is it to hit?"

If your mech has large, easy to hit side torsos, i.e. the Stalker, people tend to shy away from XL engines.

If your side torsos are very small and hard to hit, like the Kintaro, there is little to almost no risk in using an XL engine. I run 8 armor front ST, 2 armor rear ST. Haven't lost one yet. Still have never, ever been hit in the left rear side torso. Ever. Ever. That's tiny!

[El Death Smurf]

Endo steel if anything, FF and Endo steel only belong on Lights and some Mediums. Depending on your load out Endo Steel might give you 4-5 tons to help with a larger engine (I made an atlas with a STD350, 2 PPC and Gauss with 15 DHS that used Endo Steel) but rarely is it a good choice. Again, never us FF armor, as its saves less wait. NEVER USE AN XL ENGINE AND FF/ES ON AN ASSAULT. That’s 20 crit spaces you lose to save tonnage you cant use.
Then, regarding XL engines, I could see Highlanders getting away with it, but I say NEVER Stalker or Atlas, rarely Awesome, or Victor. Never GO XL unless you get speed to go along with it in an assault. If you get an exposed left or right torso you NEED to be able to protect it with quick movements the atlas and stalker are not capable of. I hardly see a stalker die without first losing at least on side torso due to hit boxes. That thing can tank damage and run STD275-300 engines just fine.

Edited by El Death Smurf, 12 August 2013 - 12:06 PM.