11 replies to this topic

[Tarrasque]

I see a lot of people begging for PGI to implement something that allows PUG teams to work together more easily, and short of integrated VOIP (which I very highly support), I've gotten to thinking about it through the lens of a game I picked up while taking a break from MWO - DotA 2.


There's quite a few things PGI could pick up from a game like that, but what made a connection in my recent MWO games running first day games in between defending ancients was how simply we could make focus firing for everyone, PUGs and units alike.


DotA has a function probably prevalent in many online games featuring a map - you can ping a location to display a visible alert it to your allies, and it even sometimes gives an automatic server message to your team (i.e. Regeneration rune here).


Everyone on these forums hates complicated means to do this, so why not set this up like another FPS - Battlefield. A button allows a lance/company leader to designate a building to group up by, a mech to target, or that area has many contacts. A simple button hold down and click could alert your whole team to something that would be far more difficult to intimate via typing, and is streamlined with shooting a target on your own.


Each lance/company commander could have their own colored target box, allowing lances to quickly figure out who's targeting who, greatly increasing synergy.


/.02



EDIT: Could this, perhaps, be a use for the command console?

Edited by Tarrasque, 12 August 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

i like your ideas. similar things have been suggested for months upon months. i'm pretty sure even PGI can come up with these ideas on their own assuming that they have played ANY other online game. they are just incapable / don't care. Their flunkies at NGNG think the game is "fun" and "URBIES ARE SO KEWL" so they ignore criticism for months until the QQ current is too stronk. in the meantime, people leave to be replaced by casuals who also think the game is "awesome." i'm embarassed to suggest this game to my friends. idk about others.

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 12 August 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

iirc some of these ideas are in the works.

[Theodor Kling]

Long overdue gameplay wise. But then again putting their resources on anything but hit registration and performance is a waste right now.
To topic: I would prefer BF 1942 style radio menues, or the even simpler UT or TF 2 ( and I think TF 1 as well) versions. Never liked the BF 2 and onwards wheel menue. Sure, looks nice, is intuitive to use... but it interupts shooting and turning.
Other ideas i've seen floating around in the forums include the ability ( for the commander) to draw actual arrows on the battle grid , which might be real usefull on the volcano map or torumaline, and indicator what your lance/company lead is targeting for easier concentration of fire and the ability to target friendlies to see their loadout.
The last one seems to be in the works, but I wonder why it isn't in already. it should not be too hard to have a copy of the code targeting enemies modified for targeting allies. And it would really help too. Only alpine gives you enough time to actuall yask people about loadouts.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

What is also needed is C-Bill and XP rewards for following orders, probably for giving them as well. otherwise I think most pugs will ignore them.

[Roadbuster]

Well, we already have that system. You see if a teammate is targetting a mech if the red triangle above the target is filled.
This only works if a teammate pressed "R" to target and if the other teammates will fire at his target.
Usually everyone just selects different targets though.

I'm not sure if a priority target would change that or even make things worse, when players try to get to that target and create a big blob, blocking eachother. You know, many players don't try to flank enemy mechs, they run straight at them.

People also like to switch targets faster than TV-stations which doesn't make things easier either.

Different colors for the different lances or a indicator which lance is targetting a mech could help improving coordination though. If the lances stay together.

Edited by Roadbuster, 13 August 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[KAT Ayanami]

Theodor Kling, on 12 August 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Other ideas i've seen floating around in the forums include the ability ( for the commander) to draw actual arrows on the battle grid , which might be real usefull on the volcano map or torumaline,

LOL!

YES! YES!

Give little kids the ability to draw "dingalings" on the screen!!!

Edited by KAT Ayanami, 13 August 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Tarrasque]

Roadbuster, on 13 August 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Well, we already have that system. You see if a teammate is targetting a mech if the red triangle above the target is filled.
This only works if a teammates pressed "R" to target and if the other teammates will fire at this target.
Usually everyone just selects different targets though.

I'm not sure if a priority target would change that or even make things worse when players try to get to that target and create a big blob, blocking eachother. You know, many players don't try to flank enemy mechs, they run straight at them.

People also like to switch targets faster than TV-stations which doesn't make things easier.

Different colors for the different lances or a indicator which lance is targetting a mech could help improving coordination though. If the lances stay together.

I understand we already have a targeting system, what I'm proposing is an advanced version of it. Simply having some random person fill in the triangle at the top of the box neither tells you who is targeting that mech, nor whether they want you to actually fire at it or not.

Like I was saying, I think that by color coding lances, you might see them stick together better. PGI needs to implement some form of pairing for general speed/weight in lances so people have an incentive to actually try and hang with their lance - sticking a Cicada with a bunch of assaults means your lance will naturally get spread out.

Ultimately, if our faith in our fellow Mechwarrior is so low that we don't expect people to fan out and try to engage properly when given a target, this game was doomed a long time ago. I'm a bit more optimistic than that.

Theodor Kling, on 12 August 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

To topic: I would prefer BF 1942 style radio menues, or the even simpler UT or TF 2 ( and I think TF 1 as well) versions. Never liked the BF 2 and onwards wheel menue. Sure, looks nice, is intuitive to use... but it interupts shooting and turning.

I've only played BF2:BC and 3 on console no less, but all I recall is hitting the back/select button 'spotted' for your team. Very simple and intuitive to use.

Theodor Kling, on 12 August 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Other ideas i've seen floating around in the forums include the ability ( for the commander) to draw actual arrows on the battle grid , which might be real usefull on the volcano map or torumaline, and indicator what your lance/company lead is targeting for easier concentration of fire and the ability to target friendlies to see their loadout.

The first though is another feature in DotA - you can control click to draw on the map, which fades over about 5 seconds. You'd have to do this in the battlemap at full screen it would seem though, again probably a good use of a command console, limiting them to 3 per team or something. Seeing your team's loadout needs to get done, they need to find an inobtrusive way to allow for this because its mind blowing that you can't target friendlies like in every MW game in history.

[Purlana]

The check box for "enable c3 VOIP"? Maybe they could make the check box actually do something?

Edited by Purlana, 13 August 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Tarrasque, on 13 August 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

I understand we already have a targeting system, what I'm proposing is an advanced version of it. Simply having some random person fill in the triangle at the top of the box neither tells you who is targeting that mech, nor whether they want you to actually fire at it or not.

Like I was saying, I think that by color coding lances, you might see them stick together better. PGI needs to implement some form of pairing for general speed/weight in lances so people have an incentive to actually try and hang with their lance - sticking a Cicada with a bunch of assaults means your lance will naturally get spread out.

Ultimately, if our faith in our fellow Mechwarrior is so low that we don't expect people to fan out and try to engage properly when given a target, this game was doomed a long time ago. I'm a bit more optimistic than that.

a. Nope, nothing tells me who is targetting a mech, but I know someone is and where the mech is.
If that mech is near my position I'll head over and help my teammate, no matter if he needs help or not.
I understand that that is a personal thing, but would this change if I knew who was attacking/getting attacked?

b. Color coding lances is a good idea. I doubt it will get players to stick together more than now though. And even though a commander can swap players of lances, I never saw someone do that. For example, breaking up a premade team just because they have 2 lights and 2 assaults is not the best idea.

c. My faith in PUGs is rather low at the moment (and yes, I do stupid things too) because everytime I get killed and spectate, I have this well known picture in my mind:

[AC]

How about a lobby so that we get a chance to get the randome PUG all on coms, and then let us play with that group for more than one game.

Nik Van Rhijn, on 13 August 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

What is also needed is C-Bill and XP rewards for following orders, probably for giving them as well. otherwise I think most pugs will ignore them.

This was Battlefield 2142, which had a great commander interface complete with toys like air strikes, drones, and EMP strikes.

[Taemien]

I always like the ideas that help out a team. VOIP, Ingame voice call outs, ect. But I don't support them currently because of the issues with hit detection. Right now the hit detection is server side and we have issues with it. That tells me the game is way too chatty for itself to support. Of course this is probably due to a bug and can be fixed.

But because it is still present, I cannot support anything that will make the network traffic more chatty then it already is.

In addition to that, anything you add to make things easier for PUGs makes it easier for non-PUGs too. Voice call outs and pings would be used to greater effect by premades because they will have set conditions on when to use them and they will mean more. You're potentially widening the gap even further.

The exception to this is VOIP. Premades will continue to use their third party voice comms. Most PUGs won't use this feature. In fact I dare say the only ones that will use it will be premade players who just happen to be running solo. This is normally the case in Planetside 2 which has an excellent VOIP option. PUG squads (non-outfit) usually don't speak to one another. Most times they don't even set waypoints.

But this is why alot of this is low priority. PUGs overall won't use these features. Premades will use some of them. And the reason PUGs won't use them, at least as they have explained to me in the past is that they don't want to play with others. Their wish is for there to be an option to play in a queue where there is an unorganized bunch vs an unorganized bunch. Its the closest thing to playing against Bots which is their one true wish. Again I'm not making this up, thats exactly what these players have indicated in other threads. You all can argue amongst yourselves how true it is or not.

AC, on 13 August 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

How about a lobby so that we get a chance to get the randome PUG all on coms, and then let us play with that group for more than one game.

This would fix a ton of issues without affecting the ingame chatter. This would allow a player like myself who's group isn't available to find a pick up group thats willing to work together. They would use the ingame features the OP suggested (making them a higher priority) and have fun. The side effect is they would become friends in some cases and possibly create units. A win/win situation for the players and PGI.

Implement this, then the other features can fall in too.