269 replies to this topic

[Nuds]

I know the grind is at least keeping potential new players away. I had friends who only played this game for a month and then quit because the grind was ridiculous they felt that they could not get a respectable mech garage unless they dedicated all their time to this game. At least one of these players was a WoW player, so its not like they can't handle a mmo grind.

[Viscount Hood]

It is a simple choice you either spend real money and help develop the game for which you are having fun playing and get everything you want or your grind ever so slowly and get what you want at a reduced pace and play the game for free.

It's a good pricing model. I prefer the grind, its more rewarding and cheaper too.

At least this game doesn't do PvP like Eve-Online where I've been for the past 10 years.. the equivalent being if you loose your mech and weapons in a fight you have to buy them from market to replace them. We don't even have to pay for repairs!
PvP in MWO is fun for not having this feature.

[ollo]

Viscount Hood, on 28 August 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

It is a simple choice you either spend real money and help develop the game for which you are having fun playing and get everything you want or your grind ever so slowly and get what you want at a reduced pace and play the game for free.

Third option: you're not invested in the game enough to keep playing at all because you're bored out running in circles. That's what most new players will probably do...

[ollo]

WarHippy, on 14 August 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

What are these current lower earnings informing you of exactly?

Of the percentage of the playerbase that will swallow this BS.

[Chronojam]

Viscount Hood, on 28 August 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

It is a simple choice you either spend real money and help develop the game for which you are having fun playing and get everything you want or your grind ever so slowly and get what you want at a reduced pace and play the game for free.

How do you know the money isn't going towards developing features you explicitly don't want (like default third person, ghost heat, etc.)? How do you know the money isn't going towards MechWarrior Tactics instead, for which publisher IGP recently changed the developer?

If I knew my $money for a Phoenix package went towards community warfare, balancing the weapons, hiring a new Q&A department, and towards their chief mech artist, then I would not mind it so much.

But I know it goes towards the movement nerf, the ghost heat system, things I don't want to see in the game.

[L Y N X]

soapyfrog, on 14 August 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

We know there is at least one alternate currency (loyalty points) that will be added soon to the game, it's possible this will compensate for slower c-bill generation.

Please define soon?

[Erebus Alpha]

500K profit on a win or ****, devs.

On the other hand, I wonder how many of MWO's players have 10+ accounts, with three variants of the same mech on each? Cadet bonus for the win.

[Myk]

While I understand that the developers need to introduce c-bill sinks to encourage folks to pony up real life money, the fact is that the current system also encourages mech pilots to face-rush and die, hop into a new mech, and get in that next drop ship as quickly as possible.

In terms of time-cost, if I can face plant my mech in under 3 minutes, and launch again... that's three matches... say, my team wins one of them once I've left... so two losses and a win... in under 10 minutes... compared to, lets say, a single match where I play tactically and manage to help my team win a hard fight.

While I'd rather play intelligently and focus on winning each match... as if it mattered... the truth is, they don't. If I focus hard and spend 10, 15 minutes on a single match only to lose... then I'm looking at a serious c-bill loss compared to a triple lemming rush c-bill splat. And that's just simple mathematics.

So, the end result of the current system is that players who need c-bills will not play intelligently to win the match... as their own goals are not in the winning of a given match, but in getting paid enough to afford that new mech; that new chassis, or engine or whatever.

Solutions? I don't know. Make the c-bill pay out for a win more significant. Make it worth my time to try to win... so that even if my PUG loses 1 out of 2 games, the ones I win off-set my losses enough to make it worthwhile. Right now the best income I can manage is a face-rush death in under 3 minutes, cycle them trial mechs, and continue on my way.

I feel pretty awful for the folks who already have tons of money and just want a decent fight... and who end up getting stuck with 3-4 PUGs that couldn't care less about the game anymore, and are so frustrated with being broke that they've totally lost focus on winning a match. I know its happening to me... and its taking away from the game, for everyone.

[Dodger79]

Myk, on 07 October 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

While I understand that the developers need to introduce c-bill sinks to encourage folks to pony up real life money, the fact is that the current system also encourages mech pilots to face-rush and die, hop into a new mech, and get in that next drop ship as quickly as possible.

In terms of time-cost, if I can face plant my mech in under 3 minutes, and launch again... that's three matches... say, my team wins one of them once I've left... so two losses and a win... in under 10 minutes... compared to, lets say, a single match where I play tactically and manage to help my team win a hard fight.

While I'd rather play intelligently and focus on winning each match... as if it mattered... the truth is, they don't. If I focus hard and spend 10, 15 minutes on a single match only to lose... then I'm looking at a serious c-bill loss compared to a triple lemming rush c-bill splat. And that's just simple mathematics.

So, the end result of the current system is that players who need c-bills will not play intelligently to win the match... as their own goals are not in the winning of a given match, but in getting paid enough to afford that new mech; that new chassis, or engine or whatever.

Solutions? I don't know. Make the c-bill pay out for a win more significant. Make it worth my time to try to win... so that even if my PUG loses 1 out of 2 games, the ones I win off-set my losses enough to make it worthwhile. Right now the best income I can manage is a face-rush death in under 3 minutes, cycle them trial mechs, and continue on my way.

I feel pretty awful for the folks who already have tons of money and just want a decent fight... and who end up getting stuck with 3-4 PUGs that couldn't care less about the game anymore, and are so frustrated with being broke that they've totally lost focus on winning a match. I know its happening to me... and its taking away from the game, for everyone.

Yes, this is a serious problem as it regards your gaming experience directly. If there are players with this farming play style in your team, your loss is almost for sure, leaving you with a bad experience. If that happens to often it may push players away. And as players are content in a f2p you need to have a good balanced economy to make playing and trying hard worth it.

Right now you gain more CB (and even XP) by taking a light Mech running amok and shooting at every enemy once before dying. The resulting kill assist net you more then a match where you fight hard and bring 2 or 3 enemies down by yourself to contribute to the team/win. Also, killing enemies fast and efficient (like with a headshot, for example) leaves you with only few damage done, resulting in less CB and XP.

So, as a result, currently PGI kinda forces players to play in a way contrary to the gaming experience of the other players in your team, and that simply cannot be right. Or, other way around: players that play in a "normal" and not abusive style have financial disadvantages compared to fun-killing farmers...

[Primez]

Hotthedd, on 14 August 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

I am not trying to be a {Noble MechWarrior} and convince you to play or not.

What I do not understand is the mentality that you are entitled to a certain amount of C-bills per match. THERE IS ZERO RISK. Personally, I would like the risk to match the reward. You want more C-bills? Fine. Are you willing to bring back R&R, (and possibly even having to replace lost weapons)? If there is a possibility of (gasp) LOSING money in a poor match, would you still complain about the amount of C-bills you are guaranteed, even in a no-damage given loss?

R&R doesn't promote teamplay, if anything you will just have people trying to take long range shots and nothing else. Brawling would be dead and maps like terra therma everyone would be to afraid to go into theta. Cbills did get nerfed and that is a fact, the player base for this game is small when you see the same people over and over again. One of the biggest problems with new players is the grind to get mechs or get anywhere. It's easier for a new player to just walk away. I recommended this game to 10 friends and only one plays it still and he complains about the grind and is thinking of dropping it. My friends already are asking me to find a new game that we can all play together.

[Tahribator]

I'm in the same boat. The grind after 12v12 is just unbearable. Even with my Heavy Metal, I can barely make 1 mil a day anymore. I used to get a new mech every few days, now I get one every two weeks.

Even premium would make little difference because %30 more of little is well, still little.

Seriously PGI, do you expect us to grind 3-4 hours every day? Do you know what was Tribes: Ascend's biggest fault?

[Myk]

The only way I can make sense of the current C-Bill mechanic is that they're trying to force as many people to buy MC before they abandon-ware the game.

Nothing else makes any sense.

[Audlyn]

Deathlike, on 14 August 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

It would've been more appreciated had this been mentioned before the introduction of 12v12 AND/OR the 12v12 testing, since those would have been relevant points in MWO for such feedback prior to actual deployment.

It doesn't matter ultimately... less people getting less c-bills means more grind, and less incentive to buy premium time AND hero mechs to negate the change AND eventually making the newbie experience much more difficult than it currently is.

Thank you for making the MWO experience less impressive and less worthwhile than it was before.

Don't you sound entitled.

I think the Cbills are fine where they are at.

Also, repair and rearm sounds...nice. But then it gives Energy weapons a huge incentive because you don't need to rearm them. Just food for thought.
To the OP...I think, logically...if you say "I won't spend money because you wont give me what I want", is a slight toddler temper-tantrum.

Reminds me of the government shutdown...

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Audlyn, on 09 October 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Don't you sound entitled.

I think the Cbills are fine where they are at.

Also, repair and rearm sounds...nice. But then it gives Energy weapons a huge incentive because you don't need to rearm them. Just food for thought.
To the OP...I think, logically...if you say "I won't spend money because you wont give me what I want", is a slight toddler temper-tantrum.

Reminds me of the government shutdown...

Exactly! Forums seem to be a place for people who only complain. And those who like something are attacked.

[Almond Brown]

Burakumin1979, on 14 August 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

stuff

Yeah, I LOVED Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries....was such a great system.

It was a SP game. Did you play Online and do the same stuff?

[Almond Brown]

Accursed Richards, on 14 August 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

No it doesn't. Expect (Wang) players to shoot arms off the last couple of mechs for no other reason than to increase someone else's repair bill. Not to mention which, it punishes people who take damage all over the mech rather than being getting cored out.

If this was "realistic", the enemy that controls the battlefield at the end would salvage your mech, you'd lose it completely, and they'd get a variable amount of the stuff on it. Note that this should apply even if you played well, but your team let you down--for maximum realism!

And is exactly why it can/will never happen. Imagine the whining when someone WON a Match and lost C-Bills to repair costs.

They have the balls to gripe now while paying "zero" dollars for repairs. A spoiled child is not easily satiated.

[Xakthos]

Almond Brown, on 10 October 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

And is exactly why it can/will never happen. Imagine the whining when someone WON a Match and lost C-Bills to repair costs.

They have the balls to gripe now while paying "zero" dollars for repairs. A spoiled child is not easily satiated.

Repair and rearm existed for a time during the beta. It had the side effect of causing a similar problem in that certain builds, particularly ballistics, would eat up most/all their winnings. What happened was that mechs went into battle laser heavy and/or highly damaged to die in one shot. Essentially broken mechs were used just to farm cash. Part of why the current no RR costs are incurred was problem of how to balance the awards. Works on the tabletop game but not so well in an online game.

[-CIBO-]

Grind? What grind? Sure it takes a bit to get more expensive stuff but there is cheaper stuff. Getting a million is roughly 10-12 games, which seeing as how the average game lasts maybe 7-10 minutes, that's easy money.

If you want to know what grinding is go play League. Take's roughly 60-100 games in League to save up 6300 IP for a champion (since they cash ***** ever since the Chinese bought them), or more even, depending on if you win or lose. And the average game length with that is 30+ minutes. That game literally forces you to spend money if you want to play new champions. Especially if you're a casual, which then it's literally unfeasible to save. The only way it'd be easy to save up that much is if you neckbeard out on the game.

Now cry and tell me about grinding in MWO some more please. There's always Hawken. The game that's already practically DOA since nobody barely plays it. You might fit in there where it's actually grindy to unlock anything.

Edited by Vorgier, 10 October 2013 - 08:53 PM.

[mad kat]

I wont give any more money until this is sorted. You could call it a boycot but seeing as i still like to play i just refuse to being manipulated into giving PGI more money than i deem the game is worth. Which Incidentally the amount i have so far given has resulted in a pretty pathetic allowance.

But i'm getting the impression that PGI arn't bothered or they're hiding behind some and i stress not all of the founders out there that are rolling around like fat cats with enough dough to buy the Bugatti Veyron of the Mech world you know who you are.

I'm not a great player but i'm not particularly bad one either but i don't get anywhere unless i'm in my firebrand with endo and dhs etc (bar the 30% boost). Incidentally all the upgrades that pretty much any Mech in the game needs to be a viable threat to others. So not only do you have to save hard for a Mech but you then need to factor in another 2.2mil C-bills to do the necessary endo and DHS upgrades.

The MC route in my eyes is cheating, Despite me using it prior but they are just taking the proverbial with the cost of things in comparison.

[tvaughanx]

Vorgier, on 10 October 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Grind? What grind? Sure it takes a bit to get more expensive stuff but there is cheaper stuff. Getting a million is roughly 10-12 games, which seeing as how the average game lasts maybe 7-10 minutes, that's easy money.

If you want to know what grinding is go play League. Take's roughly 60-100 games in League to save up 6300 IP for a champion (since they cash ***** ever since the Chinese bought them), or more even, depending on if you win or lose. And the average game length with that is 30+ minutes. That game literally forces you to spend money if you want to play new champions. Especially if you're a casual, which then it's literally unfeasible to save. The only way it'd be easy to save up that much is if you neckbeard out on the game.

Now cry and tell me about grinding in MWO some more please. There's always Hawken. The game that's already practically DOA since nobody barely plays it. You might fit in there where it's actually grindy to unlock anything.

One problem this isn't league stay on topic please.

If you must compare this game compare it to games that are not done.

Ahoy Silver