269 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Kenok, on 13 August 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

sorry if other people have lots of c-bills, but don't punish the people who don't have that sort of time. Everyone i know will not use MC to buy regular mechs so the only thing i see is more grind. Are you trying to extort me or something?

There hasn't been much communication lately as there's always a protest for everything they do. In this case I agree with them. We have members that have over 200,000,000 . I kid you not. It was that easy. Also as you 'rank up' in your factions or merc groups, you make even more money than the base rewards. Since we're in beta, changes are to be expected. Some liked. Some absolutely hated (ghost penalties anyone?).

I agree with you though, the people who don't have that kind of time will likely suffer until those upgrades come. I think they could have done this a bit closer to the real deal. Or said something first.

It's been said to be upcoming rewards for commanders and those that follow the commander's orders. There's upcoming rewards for doing what lights and mediums are supposed to do. All in all, it's a first step in a long term goal.

The alternative is repair and rearm. No cheers? None? Well then.

That said, I'll be back in my little alcove planning attack after attack on PGI's heat system until Paul sees reason, because unlike the cash system, this heat crap really is killing the game and all the flare it had. Between our insane abilities to alpha strike due to high heat capacity and b.s. penalty systems that are supposed to punish you for alpha strikes -- but also PUNISH AC/2 users for chain firing (I'm serious you can fire 6 at the same time just fine for over 14 seconds, but you fire 6 back to back? Shutdown in less than 2 seconds), and Flamers for running more than 3 seconds.

There's a real issue. O.o; It isn't so much a simulator anymore. Hasn't even been close to one since double heatsinks, xl engines, came around and repair and rearm died out. The fact that our capacity ranges from 40 (stock / trial build) to 50 (minimum for 10 engine double heatsinks) all the way beyond 88.56 capacity. It's just been alpha strike warrior. Ghost heat? Band-aid.

[GingerBang]

Koniving, on 16 August 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I agree with you though, the people who don't have that kind of time will likely suffer until those upgrades come. I think they could have done this a bit closer to the real deal. Or said something first.

PGI has done nothing but crap on everyone who actually has other commitments than 8 hours a day to video games since we hit Open Beta. Their monetization model involves forcing the people without hours and hours a day to play, to pay for equipment, to fund the people who do play hours and hours a day. It's asinine. It's the most amateur model i've in my past 3 years doing analytic work in the F2P industry.

Edited by GingerBang, 16 August 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Bullseye69]

I think they cut our rewards down before implementing the new rewards for community warfare or getting more rewards for doing things in games such ad scouting returning to base to defend cap and such.

But here is the rub if your want to sell mc the easy way is to leave rewards good and let people spend themm on the 3 new mech varients to level and oops got to buy MC to buy more bays since I am out of mech bays for new shiny toys.

Now i have a question for everyone out there what up with machine guns, I watch a lot og history channel and gun shows sue me I from the south we like our guns. Every show I see even modern machine guns can only fire so much befoer you have to let them cool down or you have to replace the barrel. Getting real tired of seeing jagermechs running around with 4 to 6 machine firing for mintues at the time without letting off the fire button without some kind of drawback. Most weapons now have a drawback to them you fire too many and you have a extra heat. I have yet to see any drawback to firing 4 to 6 machine guns on your mech.

[Jragonsoul]

Bullseye69, on 16 August 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Now i have a question for everyone out there what up with machine guns, I watch a lot og history channel and gun shows sue me I from the south we like our guns. Every show I see even modern machine guns can only fire so much befoer you have to let them cool down or you have to replace the barrel. Getting real tired of seeing jagermechs running around with 4 to 6 machine firing for mintues at the time without letting off the fire button without some kind of drawback. Most weapons now have a drawback to them you fire too many and you have a extra heat. I have yet to see any drawback to firing 4 to 6 machine guns on your mech.

It's because unless armor i stripped off of a location MG's do NOTHING. I mean test it. Get as many as you can carry on a mech, load up ammo and go to testing grounds and JUST fire them. See how long it takes you to kill the STOCK Commando with them, try the Centurian next then if you aren't out of ammo the Catapult and IF you still have ammo there's an Awesome and Atlas on the map too....

[Hotthedd]

Jragonsoul, on 16 August 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

It's because unless armor i stripped off of a location MG's do NOTHING. I mean test it. Get as many as you can carry on a mech, load up ammo and go to testing grounds and JUST fire them. See how long it takes you to kill the STOCK Commando with them, try the Centurian next then if you aren't out of ammo the Catapult and IF you still have ammo there's an Awesome and Atlas on the map too....

That is not true. 4 MGs do a sustained 8 damage per second to armor. 3 seconds of sustained fire with no heat is 24 armor gone and zero heat. (2 dps x 4MG x 3sec = 24) Against internals it is 44.8 damage in 3 seconds (2.8 dps x 4MG x 3sec = 44.8), again with zero heat. And unlike other weapons, MGs can fire continuously.

[KingJono]

You know that the economy is suffering when it is more profitable to join games and leave immediately than to play them out... Things are bad now, but I remain confident they will improve.

[Hotthedd]

Perhaps many people are looking at this the wrong way.

Instead of rewards being lowered from before, think of the new reward system as normal, and the past months of playing gave everyone who tested to this point a big C-bill hug.

With this new perspective, we can all feel better and snuggly.

[Esarai]

I have invited 10 people to play MWO with me. 8 of them stopped playing, directly stating that grind was the issue. The only other two were big fans of the BattleTech franchise from well before MWO. It's been said that no one wants to play 200 games in a substandard mech that will result in their complete and utter decimation at the hands of more experienced players before they can get a new mech, and this is exactly the scenario that played out with my friends. Even the Cadet Bonus didn't help convince them to return. First impressions are everything.

My major concern is that PGI doesn't try to target new players, it's designed for the old guard of MechWarrior fans. While this has proved stable, it's only utilizing a fraction of the available market.

I also worry that the devs, with their special dev accounts that have billions of C-bills and GXP granted to them, do not actually understand what their game plays like to a complete newbie to the BT universe.

[Nuke and Glow]

If you get to much rewards you get everything and the game gets old fast. Making it more of a challenge without a mindless grind is what this game needs. It's a double-edged sword, make stuff easy and game gets old or make it hard and the game gets boring. The solution to this is more content and maybe a different level of rewards for certain things you can enter. How about some PVE with co-op missions, think of how many people would grind those over and over not to mention a way to implement more cb rewards.. Also I can say I haven't spent a penny on this game yet and I will not until the cost of mechs and skins are more reasonable. How about for the release you give a 50% MC bonus to the amount bought , just a idea .

Edited by Nuke and Glow, 17 August 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Superchibisan]

Honestly, I am tired of playing my Hunchback variants and want to play a different mech. Unfortunately, this is not possible because I can't make enough money to buy a new mech in any reasonable amount of time. I almost want to start a new account so I can get the cadet bonus and buy a different style mech. Would be far quicker than actually just playing the game.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Koniving, on 16 August 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

There hasn't been much communication lately as there's always a protest for everything they do. In this case I agree with them. We have members that have over 200,000,000 . I kid you not. It was that easy. Also as you 'rank up' in your factions or merc groups, you make even more money than the base rewards. Since we're in beta, changes are to be expected. Some liked. Some absolutely hated (ghost penalties anyone?).

I agree with you though, the people who don't have that kind of time will likely suffer until those upgrades come. I think they could have done this a bit closer to the real deal. Or said something first.

It's been said to be upcoming rewards for commanders and those that follow the commander's orders. There's upcoming rewards for doing what lights and mediums are supposed to do. All in all, it's a first step in a long term goal.

The alternative is repair and rearm. No cheers? None? Well then.

That said, I'll be back in my little alcove planning attack after attack on PGI's heat system until Paul sees reason, because unlike the cash system, this heat crap really is killing the game and all the flare it had. Between our insane abilities to alpha strike due to high heat capacity and b.s. penalty systems that are supposed to punish you for alpha strikes -- but also PUNISH AC/2 users for chain firing (I'm serious you can fire 6 at the same time just fine for over 14 seconds, but you fire 6 back to back? Shutdown in less than 2 seconds), and Flamers for running more than 3 seconds.

There's a real issue. O.o; It isn't so much a simulator anymore. Hasn't even been close to one since double heatsinks, xl engines, came around and repair and rearm died out. The fact that our capacity ranges from 40 (stock / trial build) to 50 (minimum for 10 engine double heatsinks) all the way beyond 88.56 capacity. It's just been alpha strike warrior. Ghost heat? Band-aid.

There are always players in every game that will have more money than they know what to do with. Hell If I took the collective worth of my battlemech collections I would probably have 500 million myself. I mean I could have just bought a heavy metal, Misery, Ilya or whatever and only played that mech 2000 matchs and I too could have 200 million. Instead I alway buy new mechs and equipment.

If I made a rough guess, to buy one of every mech in the game you would have to spend probably in the neighborhood of 500 million C-bills. This is before outfitting and experimenting which would probably easily be another 250 million C-bills.

I use to earn about 150k C-bill per match and they use to take 7 mins per match. That means I would have to play 5000 matches which would have taken me roughly 583 hours of gameplay to complete if I wanted to own every mech in the game. Additionally, I would have had to invest 26,400 MC just to buy bays. This is just to clear the existing content.

The point I am making is that the vast majority of people aren't going to invest this much time and effort on this game to be at the point where they no longer have mechs they want to buy and are sitting on 200 million in C-bills. That is not a average player. Also you have to figure that when the clans come out, 200 million is going to be chump change when you have mechs costing as high as 30 million each. Hell even buying 3 Orions will put a dent in that two hundred million, probably to the tune of 30 million after outfitting.

So yeah the one percenters in the game have 200 million and nothing to spend it on. However the majority of us are stuggling just to get enough to buy that next mech we want, let along the probably half dozen more we also want to buy plus saving up for the new mechs that are coming out.

Hell I am even estimating that it is going to cost me probably 30-40 million just to outfit the 12 mechs I am getting for free (c-bill-wise anyway) with the Overlord pack when I take into account adding DHS, Endo and XL engines, not to mention probably being required to buy more weapons and possibly Artemis or FF. With that in mind I am going to have to take a 4-6 week hiatus from buying anything just to try to save up enough C-bills for the outfitting especially with this current economy that has me earning roughly half what I was before on a per hour basis.

No, they need to readjust the economy back to what it was at the very least or else they are going to start pushing players away from this game, especially the F2P crowd that many would have eventually become P2P players given the opportunity.

[M0rpHeu5]

Nuke and Glow, on 17 August 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

If you get to much rewards you get everything and the game gets old fast. Making it more of a challenge without a mindless grind is what this game needs.

This is the phrase of the day.

[Chronojam]

Nuke and Glow, on 17 August 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

If you get to much rewards you get everything and the game gets old fast. Making it more of a challenge without a mindless grind is what this game needs.

I have a radical idea, what if they instead make the game more fun to play and introduce more viable builds with some sort of superior matchmaking system? Maybe even a way to arrange competitive matches.

[C E Dwyer]

Accursed Richards, on 14 August 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Correct. The only right the players have is the right to abandon this game if they become bored with it, in favour of one where the grind is down to a tolerable level.

Thing is all grinds are the same unless you an acceptional player wot tiers stop at 8 without premium based on a 50% win loss rate, wargamming told the community this is how its designed..you can...go higher..but its agony..without

Warthunder I didn't stay long enough to find out were the soft cap was, as both titles were so bais towards old warpact countries it was tedious,


PGI took the cost of repair out of Mechwarrior, its the easiest pvp grind i've been involved with the last few years and easier than any PvE game i've been involved with except SWTOR, even with the credit reduction, unlike the first two titles there is zero chance of finishing a battle with negative credits..and people still complain.

sighs now you made me defend PGI..you make me a sad bunny

[Threat Doc]

Kenok, on 13 August 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

After the nerf to C-bills, there is no longer advancement for me in this "Mech Simulator". I'm dirt poor as it is and now it feels like i don't earn 2 million in one day. The grind for me was already tedious but doable, i felt it was fair as i don't have all day to play. Now it's just unclear what the point is. I have premium and even when i destroy in a match i don't get rewarded much. I think i have only earned 200k once or so?

Contracting will be a part of Community Warfare, if what Russ Bullock has been saying since October 23rd, 2011 is true. If the contracting is even supposed to be remotely close to what the game universe calls for, then you should be happy to be earning 2500 C-Bills per month, on a day-to-day basis game, and that's high for a moderately-skilled medium-ranked MechWarrior, with many of your repairs and what-not taken care of for you.

Now, this foolishness of being required to scale up three 'Mechs of one Chassis type, plus one 'Mech of another just to be able to make Elite should make it so you'll earn higher C-Bills on a per-match basis, but when it comes down to playing in the forthcoming persistent gaming environment, if people are earning 250,000 C-Bills for a single match, that will be intolerable to me. Earn it, don't just shoot a hole in one guy to do it.

The game has to be balanced against contracting, and so folks will be able to play in a persistent -non-whiny-child- game where it truly feels like you're EARNING something, not just playing a kiddy console game for points.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Hotthedd, on 17 August 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Perhaps many people are looking at this the wrong way.

Instead of rewards being lowered from before, think of the new reward system as normal, and the past months of playing gave everyone who tested to this point a big C-bill hug.

With this new perspective, we can all feel better and snuggly.

This would be fine if they weren't taking my money for premium time. Hell they can test all that want if they want to refund me the money I spent on premium.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Kay Wolf, on 19 August 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Contracting will be a part of Community Warfare, if what Russ Bullock has been saying since October 23rd, 2011 is true. If the contracting is even supposed to be remotely close to what the game universe calls for, then you should be happy to be earning 2500 C-Bills per month, on a day-to-day basis game, and that's high for a moderately-skilled medium-ranked MechWarrior, with many of your repairs and what-not taken care of for you.

Now, this foolishness of being required to scale up three 'Mechs of one Chassis type, plus one 'Mech of another just to be able to make Elite should make it so you'll earn higher C-Bills on a per-match basis, but when it comes down to playing in the forthcoming persistent gaming environment, if people are earning 250,000 C-Bills for a single match, that will be intolerable to me. Earn it, don't just shoot a hole in one guy to do it.

The game has to be balanced against contracting, and so folks will be able to play in a persistent -non-whiny-child- game where it truly feels like you're EARNING something, not just playing a kiddy console game for points.

Here is the thing. I just figured it up a little while ago but to buy and outfit every mech variant current in the game or offically annouced, your looking at having to come up with over ONE BILLION C-BILLS. Yes I said ONE BILLION C-BILLS.

Now at 150k per match which was what I was averaging prior to the nerf, I think I am definately having to EARN what I buy if I want to even attempt to own, use or try out a majority of what is currently in the game. This isn't even including the unannounced stuff can pretty much assume is coming down the pipe.

If the game was based on an experience progression rather than a C-bill progression, i.e. you started off in a commando and through earning hundreds of thousands of XP over time, you earned new mechs, then your example of 2500 C-bills a day would make sense. However they didn't go with an XP progression system, they went with a currency progression system where in order to progress, i.e. buy new mechs, you have to earn millions upon millions of C-bills.

Also I am not sure your vision of MWO and PGIs vision of MWO is consistance with each others. I don't see one thing about this game either in or annouced that leads me to believe we are going to have a fully presistant gaming enviornment. Sure they are going to likely implement their version of WoTs Clan Wars, but I don't see any presistant world in that, rather it is just another game mode. They most definately aren't going to be adding Roleplay, Character Development or Story Elements to the game, that is something that is obvious.

No unfortuantely in this game to progress you need C-bills. Too low of C-bills and the game gets grindy and boring, too much and it get trival. Right now it is mostly grindy and boring because it takes so long to purchase and outfit mechs. Before it was only this way IF you didn't have premium which was a prefect balance if you ask me.

[Threat Doc]

I can't even remotely express how badly I HATE the start-with-almost-nothing stupid progression of 'Mechs from all previous MechWarrior games. I hate it so badly, that it makes the purchasing of multiple 'Mechs just to be able to advance to Elite palatable.

Persistent: http://mwomercs.com/...mmunity-warfare

[Lunatic_Asylum]

I see no difficulties in earning enough money for new mechs, and I play only an hour per day or less. I like the way it is now: if you do not like it, then just move on.

[Wyest]

Kay Wolf, on 19 August 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Contracting will be a part of Community Warfare, if what Russ Bullock has been saying since October 23rd, 2011 is true. If the contracting is even supposed to be remotely close to what the game universe calls for, then you should be happy to be earning 2500 C-Bills per month, on a day-to-day basis game, and that's high for a moderately-skilled medium-ranked MechWarrior, with many of your repairs and what-not taken care of for you.

Why would I be happy with a real life income in a game? I can't afford a second Jenner on that salary, let alone an Atlas...

If we're going by 'in universe' limits, you can only have one personal mech at a time. Oh, and if it blows, chances are you died too.

Quote

The game has to be balanced against contracting, and so folks will be able to play in a persistent -non-whiny-child- game where it truly feels like you're EARNING something, not just playing a kiddy console game for points.

Yep, and it should be balanced with it, once contracting is available.
It isn't, so the point is moot.

It's like giving you a pay cut now, but claiming you'll get subsidies from other things later.
Except those other subsidies aren't available yet. So all you're left with is less pay and more work to do to get the same pay as before.

I don't know about you, but I play this game to have fun blowing stuff up. I don't play it to have a second job. I've quit games before because of that grind.

lunticasylum, on 19 August 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

I see no difficulties in earning enough money for new mechs, and I play only an hour per day or less. I like the way it is now: if you do not like it, then just move on.

The real problem is that people may well do just that. If they do, who's going to buy stuff for real money?

Edited by Wyest, 20 August 2013 - 05:15 AM.