269 replies to this topic

[Primez]

Durant Carlyle, on 14 November 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm comparing the new user experience. That has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the end-game experience or the big picture. So my argument is strong.

It does when you mention a growing playerbase, want to know why people stick with EVE because of the rich end game where if you invest your time you feel like you accomplished something hence the players that do go to EVE stick with it and the playerbase grows compared to MWO that has no end game right now and a shrinking playerbase. Sure new user experience factors in but if your looking at retention of playerbase you need to look at everything. If you pick and choose to make your argument look good, doesn't make it a strong one.

Like I said you need to look at the big picture...

Edited by Primez, 15 November 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Heffay, on 14 November 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's because people will ***** about anything.

Seriously, raise $130k for cancer research, and someone will complain that PGI should be spending their time getting rid of 3PV.

Aye sadly I agree. It's just a shame when people don't realise just how good this economy is compared to the competition!
It's the most relaxing F2p combat game I have ever played:)

[Sir Ratburger]

Burakumin1979, on 14 August 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

They should definitely increase rewards...but they should also bring back rearm and repair costs. You want to limit sloppy play? Make it hurt.

Sure you made 500k for a loss, BUT you lost an arm (100k), got cored (250k) and need to replace armor and internal structure(50k). You can wait until a win to reload, so you will only have 15 shots with the SRMs this next round and maybe leave soem armor off that right arm.

Or you made 1,000,000 for a win! But your ppc got blown off (weapon price to replace) and your armor is done (100k)...plus some internal but you have Endo, so thats gonna cost ya more! (200k).

There is a great way to integreate rearm and repair that feels exciting without being debilitating and tedious. But people seem to want deathmatch CoD, not a simulation.

Yeah, I LOVED Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries....was such a great system.

It does sound quite fun actually but I think this should be a diffrent 'mode' as well as the mode where you risk nothing on repairs but get less money... Call it 'clan funded mission', they take the repair bills onboard but pay the pilots so you get less per match and 'mercenary misssion' where its all on your shoulders but you get all the profit... or loss

Edited by Sir Ratburger, 15 November 2013 - 02:52 AM.

[Randalf Yorgen]

this thread is still alive? Someone please pull the plug

[Primez]

Randalf Yorgen, on 15 November 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

this thread is still alive? Someone please pull the plug

Even if they strike this thread down, 10 more will rise up in it's place.

[Fut]

Primez, on 15 November 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Even if they strike this thread down, 10 more will rise up in it's place.

[Scromboid]

Heffay, on 14 November 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's because people will ***** about anything.

Seriously, raise $130k for cancer research, and someone will complain that PGI should be spending their time getting rid of 3PV.

I just find this to be a very limited view. Life is not this simple, sorry to say

It is just like the argument I hear all the time in the states: "USA could be better, but it's better than anywhere else." Okay, fine, but that does not mean you do not fix the things that are showing to have problems. Only have 1 cavity? Ah... that's fine, right? You have lots of other teeth.

Saying people with complain about anything is not taking their complaints seriously and investigating why they are making them. That is how you engage your customer base in sales to retain and add new customers. Showing them you do care about their issues, ridiculous as they may seem up front, enough to investigate will give them the peace of mind that you care about them, which will endear them to your company. It's the little things, as they say. I have been in retail or customer support nearly all my life... sales, install, service, businesses growth... you name it. It is always the little things.

Just because something like this is not important to you, and you do not understand it, does not mean it is not a relevant concern being raised by others.

[Chronojam]

Durant Carlyle, on 14 November 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm comparing the new user experience. That has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the end-game experience or the big picture. So my argument is strong.

The checkers game has an easier new game experience than chess. MWO is checkers, and EVE is 5-dimensional chess. You can't deflect that they made checkers unwelcoming by saying five dimension chess is complicated.

[Heffay]

Scromboid, on 15 November 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Just because something like this is not important to you, and you do not understand it, does not mean it is not a relevant concern being raised by others.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that some people will complain about anything.

Maybe I should replace "anything" with "everything" to make it more clear.

[Roadbeer]

Roadbeer, on 13 October 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

So, let me get this straight...

The purpose of MC is to buy your way out of the grind, but you're not going to buy your way out of the grind until they fix the grind so you don't have to buy your way out of it?

Did I read that right?

Just because I think it needed to be restated.

[WarHippy]

Roadbeer, on 15 November 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Just because I think it needed to be restated.

That is a pretty disingenuous argument to me. The problem for me is that there is a cut off where one feels the time investment required is not worth it, and their only options are to either not play or pay a much higher premium than they would have to in another game that does not proclaim to be free to play. It should feel like an incentive to buy MC rather than feel like a tedious necessity. That being said it is all subjective as to what people feel is or is not too much time investment, and personally I feel it is a little out of balance right now.

[Chronojam]

Roadbeer, on 15 November 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Just because I think it needed to be restated.

MC gets you sweet paintjobs, mech bays, and ~premium variants~ so perhaps his angle has nothing to do with personally buying his way out of the grind nor does he support the notion that MC should heavily emphasize avoiding the grind in the first place.

Wouldn't you prefer a game where MC was more about subsidizing the development of awesome new content instead of avoiding annoying hurdles that were made taller simply to convince you to pay cash because the content wasn't appealing or prolific enough to generate profit on its own?

[Roadbeer]

Both good points,
I guess I just don't see the grind. I'm not Pokemeching the game with a need to collect them all, and I feel the pace of CBill accumulation is fine for my style of play for buying the equipment I need.

So I just don't feel the imbalance, and when I hear people on the VoIP I use complain about not having enough CBills to buy X, when I ask them what they've bought recently, it's usually something like "I just bought 3 Seismic Sensors"... ok, so you're broke because you're lazy. Got it.
It's not always the case, but I've heard it, and that's what sticks in my head. Poor currency management.

Edited by Roadbeer, 15 November 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[WarHippy]

Roadbeer, on 15 November 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Both good points,
I guess I just don't see the grind. I'm not Pokemeching the game with a need to collect them all, and I feel the pace of CBill accumulation is fine for my style of play for buying the equipment I need.

So I just don't feel the imbalance, and when I hear people on the VoIP I use complain about not having enough CBills to buy X, when I ask them what they've bought recently, it's usually something like "I just bought 3 Seismic Sensors"... ok, so you're broke because you're lazy. Got it.
It's not always the case, but I've heard it, and that's what sticks in my head. Poor currency management.

Poor currency management probably does play a factor in it, but in this game and Mechwarrior/Battletech in general constant tinkering with builds and new mechs has always been an important part of the game for a lot of people. Saddly, that can become a rather large drain on c-bills in this version.

[Chronojam]

That's why I've always felt it needs a real Training Ground that lets you experiment, cost-free, with mech loadouts. It makes perfect sense, doesn't it? What better way to try out a sick hypothetical build of <Hero Mech> than by taking it out for a test drive?

For an example of why we need that: As it stands, it is very expensive to try incremental engine changes. Barring PGI suddenly introducing a MW2-style engine rating increase/decrease (which would also have avoided the problem of launching without an engine), a new player who wants to experiment with speed variation needs to buy several different engines at high cost. This stifles creativity and customization since a different engine or XL vs STD play a large role in mech fitting.

Unfortunately the high prices mean that it's difficult to tinker with your mech. High prices with low resale value works better when you can actually try things out. Sure, you can see various numbers in the mech lab before you commit to a purchase, but you can't get a feel for what one more medium laser feels like in-game, or what another 15kph lets you do, or understand the ghost heat implications via those vague numbers alone.

Edited by Chronojam, 15 November 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

Scromboid, on 15 November 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

I just find this to be a very limited view. Life is not this simple, sorry to say

It is just like the argument I hear all the time in the states: "USA could be better, but it's better than anywhere else." Okay, fine, but that does not mean you do not fix the things that are showing to have problems. Only have 1 cavity? Ah... that's fine, right? You have lots of other teeth.

Saying people with complain about anything is not taking their complaints seriously and investigating why they are making them. That is how you engage your customer base in sales to retain and add new customers. Showing them you do care about their issues, ridiculous as they may seem up front, enough to investigate will give them the peace of mind that you care about them, which will endear them to your company. It's the little things, as they say. I have been in retail or customer support nearly all my life... sales, install, service, businesses growth... you name it. It is always the little things.

Just because something like this is not important to you, and you do not understand it, does not mean it is not a relevant concern being raised by others.

Good points mate, but......

Some of the people on this thread seem to want to play for free and have the same rate of profit and convenience as a paying customer. They want what they want NOW. They complain because what they want takes too long. But they gloss over the fact that you are ALWAYS making a profit. You NEVER LOSE anything-other than dignity some times:)

So for example, I just bought 3 hunchies and 3 cents. I used MC for some of them. But, if I did not want to I did not need to pay one single penny. It might take me a bit longer to get the money-but it's free with 0 risk.
It seems to be impatience causing the skewed perspective on the economy.
In WT it's possible to lose money on a tier 5 plane ( there are 20 tiers) if you don't get at least 1 air kill.
In MWO it's IMPOSSIBLE to ever lose money.......how is that bad?

[Conjure]

The past year or more I have played over three thousand matches. If you figure half my time played averaging 300k per match that would give me around 450 million c bills acquired in my first six months/1500 games. Post economy nerf the next 1500 games averaging at 90k per match leaves would give me another 135 mill. That's a total of 600 million c bills. After So many games one could assume I have built a collection of mechs (At least 4 with available free mech bays), many engines and weapons. Pretty safe conclusion right?[/color]

Wrong, I have one mech, two engines and little more weapons than on my load out. I have less than a million c bills on me right now. Surprising right? Especially after the figure of 600 mill c bills acquired. How did this happen? How after hundreds of hours spent grinding do I come up with little to nothing? The resale of mechs, engines and weapons.[/color]

Pre economy nerf I had mech bays full, a number of engines to play with and multiples of every weapon. Reaching elite class on my favorite variants was a reasonably quick process (not to quick imo). I could play around with new builds when ever i got bored with old ones. There was the customization of Mechwarrior that I was accustomed to through BT and the preceding PC games. It kept the game fresh and fun when other aspects of the game grew dull.[/color]

Anymore I don't have the patience or time to keep up the grind and save. Only a few hours of play time a night makes unlocking new mechs variants to elite take weeks. I'm not working a month to get a new released mech up to elite and upgraded. I'm tired of the mech by the time I get there and I want to try try some thing new. So far I have sold everything again and again at {Scrap} resale prices just to buy a new mech to keep the game fun. I'm pretty tired of it and hope it changes.[/color]

Just my two cents[/color]

Edited by Conjure, 17 November 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Blurry]

its fine. People like me just give up and move on to anther game.
So another player leaves - gives a bad rep to the game.

dont forget I was spending money and would happily do so if the game wasnt a one sided pubstomp grind. Sorry it just isnt fun so I have moved on to greener pastures.

If they ever decide to fix the match maker and make premium time viable I may come back. Thats right I am not even complaining about regular rate - I am talking about premium time being horrific too!

[Jon Gotham]

Blurry, on 17 November 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

its fine. People like me just give up and move on to anther game.
So another player leaves - gives a bad rep to the game.

dont forget I was spending money and would happily do so if the game wasnt a one sided pubstomp grind. Sorry it just isnt fun so I have moved on to greener pastures.

If they ever decide to fix the match maker and make premium time viable I may come back. Thats right I am not even complaining about regular rate - I am talking about premium time being horrific too!

I wish you luck then-but stay away from WoT and WT if I were you.
If you think this economy is bad just wait till you try them...........


For the final time, the economy in this game is one of the best I have ever seen.
You NEVER lose money, ever.
You do not get punished financially for having a bad team, ever.
Right after your first 25 games, where the DEVS give you 500k per match as a starter...you can go out and buy an ATLAS for pity's sake. Does the WoT's and WT's of this world allow that?

The only time you run short of money is: IF YOU WASTE IT.

again, just HOW is this economy bad?

[Blurry]

kamiko kross, on 17 November 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I wish you luck then-but stay away from WoT and WT if I were you.
If you think this economy is bad just wait till you try them...........


For the final time, the economy in this game is one of the best I have ever seen.
You NEVER lose money, ever.
You do not get punished financially for having a bad team, ever.
Right after your first 25 games, where the DEVS give you 500k per match as a starter...you can go out and buy an ATLAS for pity's sake. Does the WoT's and WT's of this world allow that?

The only time you run short of money is: IF YOU WASTE IT.

again, just HOW is this economy bad?

I have tried them and find it far more entertaining and fun.
That is the issue here.

If the game was fun, entertaining and had well more then the grind would never enter into the picture.
But with 95% of all matches 1 sided stomps it exacerbates the grind issue.

Like I said if they fixed the Matchmaker and maybe went a little tighter or added a solo q then it may be a huge difference.
When you are having fun and the matches are close - you dont care about the grind and the economy.

But when your play experience is {Scrap} and then after the match you see you get {Scrap} then there is an issue.
There is a huge grind in WOT but ya know what - it is fun and enjoyable.

They really need to look at why things arent fun and tackle them if there is any hope for this game.