269 replies to this topic

[Schrottfrosch]

I have to agree, that the MM is actually the devil himself atm - but at least you stay at a rough 50% win/loss rate while pugging. I pug most of the time even though I joined a group and I am trying to hook my brother up again with MWO, so I have enough experience with the MM to evaluate it

Regarding the grind I think the game is fair - in earlier posts of mine I even asked for more grind ( pls dont be angry with me ), but this was mostly exp-related.

I also played my fair share of WoT ( http://worldoftanks....-Schrottfrosch/ ) and after 22k battles I have to say WoT is indeed fun, but you need to stay with the low and middle tiers! Playing on competitive levels is really hard and grinding for tier X tanks, which are a necessity for CW and stuff is a true pain in the ***. At least gold ammunition, which is a necessity for CW, too, is available for ingame money now. Earlier only gold buyers could use that ammo type. Regarding their premium tanks they are much more expensive than MWO, too - their Löwe comes at 50$, which could be roughly compared to a hero mech of the heavy or assault class - but it does not even come with a special paintjob, you have to spend extra money on that.

In the end though I have to say, there are many games out there, that are fun to play - and people should try them out, many are free to play or cost less than 10$. I do that myself but I come back to MWO regularly because I simply love battlemechs!

[Jon Gotham]

Blurry, on 17 November 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I have tried them and find it far more entertaining and fun.
That is the issue here.

If the game was fun, entertaining and had well more then the grind would never enter into the picture.
But with 95% of all matches 1 sided stomps it exacerbates the grind issue.

Like I said if they fixed the Matchmaker and maybe went a little tighter or added a solo q then it may be a huge difference.
When you are having fun and the matches are close - you dont care about the grind and the economy.

But when your play experience is {Scrap} and then after the match you see you get {Scrap} then there is an issue.
There is a huge grind in WOT but ya know what - it is fun and enjoyable.

They really need to look at why things arent fun and tackle them if there is any hope for this game.

I thought as much:)
If you like them mate, go ahead and enjoy them! WT died for me when a mouse is a superior flight tool than a joystick.....360 god view FTW:P
Losing money at tier 5 out of 20 FTW:) I still play only occasionally as the economy there has essentially forced me out of the game, I'm waiting for the tanks to come in and see if it's any different.

And WoT well....it WAS a great game. Nowadays not very much so. A simply AWFUL community.

but anyway, best of luck matey-I hope you find something else to enjoy-but please don't bash on this economy, which is the best I have ever seen....

[WarHippy]

kamiko kross, on 15 November 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Good points mate, but......

Some of the people on this thread seem to want to play for free and have the same rate of profit and convenience as a paying customer. They want what they want NOW. They complain because what they want takes too long. But they gloss over the fact that you are ALWAYS making a profit. You NEVER LOSE anything-other than dignity some times:)

As someone who has spent a lot on the game so far I would say your first statement is wrong. I want everyone to have increased income, and throwing the tired jab that people are wanting things nooowww like so many others have done makes your argument that much weaker. You do always make a profit, but then you would make a profit at one c-bill per match and I highly doubt you would have many people sticking around for that ridiculous income rate. The same applies for other higher amounts of income, but you gloss over the fact that even though we are making a profit a lot of people feel it is out of balance with the time investment right now.

kamiko kross, on 15 November 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

So for example, I just bought 3 hunchies and 3 cents. I used MC for some of them. But, if I did not want to I did not need to pay one single penny. It might take me a bit longer to get the money-but it's free with 0 risk.
It seems to be impatience causing the skewed perspective on the economy.
In WT it's possible to lose money on a tier 5 plane ( there are 20 tiers) if you don't get at least 1 air kill.
In MWO it's IMPOSSIBLE to ever lose money.......how is that bad?

You may not lose money directly, but you can lose time pretty easily. The question for some is if the time investment is worth it at this point.

[Time at the Position]

wow I posted in this thread months ago
Still waiting on that thing that was supposed to increase income to offset the income nerf NikoSnow

[Chronojam]

kamiko kross, on 17 November 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I wish you luck then-but stay away from WoT and WT if I were you.
If you think this economy is bad just wait till you try them...........

Does WT mean Warthunder? Because just today they had yet another weekend event where you win premium shop cash just by playing.

[Deathlike]

Chronojam, on 17 November 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Does WT mean Warthunder? Because just today they had yet another weekend event where you win premium shop cash just by playing.

Really? Why I do feel screwed out of spite all of a sudden?

Consistent incentives to play the game (even if the reward seems minute) helps with player activity. Outside of tournies or those "challenges", those things are few and far in between. There's no reason to play a game if there's no end goal (even with the lack of CW) and becomes "just another day" and "just another sale".

Here's a fun "prediction", there's going to be a Camo sale this week for the ShadowHawk. Just you guys wait....

I remember there were "weekends" where Founders and those with Hero mechs would get a 50% C-bills bonus instead of their regular bonuses... that happened like twice? I don't even apply to either category, and it's almost like PGI has to be stingy for every little thing. I don't even get it.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 November 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Chronojam]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Really? Why I do feel screwed out of spite all of a sudden?

Consistent incentives to play the game (even if the reward seems minute) helps with player activity. Outside of tournies or those "challenges", those things are few and far in between. There's no reason to play a game if there's no end goal (even with the lack of CW) and becomes "just another day" and "just another sale".

Here's a fun "prediction", there's going to be a Camo sale this week for the ShadowHawk. Just you guys wait....

I remember there were "weekends" where Founders and those with Hero mechs would get a 50% C-bills bonus instead of their regular bonuses... that happened like twice? I don't even apply to either category, and it's almost like PGI has to be stingy for every little thing. I don't even get it.

Golden Eagles are analogous to MC, used to early-unlock decals, camo, and aircraft as well as being able to directly acquire XP using them. This weekend's golden eagle event was a big hit, and the Warthunder devs extended the duration of the event midway through it so that more people could participate.



There are frequently new missions and special events like this. That "Lend Lease" news article makes several aircraft available at a 30% discount (these discounts do apply to standard silver-lions, which are analogous to Cbills). It also made your first victory of the day a 5x multiplier, for every country in the game.

Earlier in the month they were updating the servers. As a thank-you for bearing with them, everybody who had premium time got 18 hours of premium time for the hell of it.

Basically every two days you're either getting some pretty cool historical information, some new special event or mission, or a discount of some sort. They recently made premium time 50% off.

... Then again War Thunder also publicly displays how many people are actively in a match, how many matches are going, how many players are online, and how many people are in the queue to play at every level. So it's clear they don't know what they're doing and aren't a serious business which is why they're constantly giving special offers and getting you in the mood to play. PGI knows better than to do such silliness.

Edited by Chronojam, 17 November 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[CrashieJ]

Chronojam, on 17 November 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Freagles

My question is, Why is PGI so stingy when it comes to virtual currency?

answer: if they did the same thing Warthunder did, we'd already have 80% of all premium items in the game.

The Goal of a F2P game is to bait the user to keep playing, WHILE rewarding them for their efforts, look at Warthunder and the Tried and True TEAMFORTRESS 2. Their business Model is ironclad PERFECT, with new items to be bought nearly on a 2 month basis, true most of it is cosmetic and cost currency, but those same items (during the right times) can be aquired even by the most Joe-N00B of people.

MW:O actually punishes the players all for the wrong reasons.

I can actually call a STEAM or GAIGIN entertainment representative with research questions on how their economy work, and they'll be more than happy to oblige.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Blurry, on 17 November 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I have tried them and find it far more entertaining and fun.
That is the issue here.

If the game was fun, entertaining and had well more then the grind would never enter into the picture.
But with 95% of all matches 1 sided stomps it exacerbates the grind issue.

Like I said if they fixed the Matchmaker and maybe went a little tighter or added a solo q then it may be a huge difference.
When you are having fun and the matches are close - you dont care about the grind and the economy.

But when your play experience is {Scrap} and then after the match you see you get {Scrap} then there is an issue.
There is a huge grind in WOT but ya know what - it is fun and enjoyable.

They really need to look at why things arent fun and tackle them if there is any hope for this game.

the economy is fine... the gameplay isn't which makes things feel like they take forever in general.

so cbill earnings are fine but fixing the game up is more of what's needed and an entirely different issue...

moving on.

[Balsover]

gavilatius, on 17 November 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

My question is, Why is PGI so stingy when it comes to virtual currency?

answer: if they did the same thing Warthunder did, we'd already have 80% of all premium items in the game.

The Goal of a F2P game is to bait the user to keep playing, WHILE rewarding them for their efforts, look at Warthunder and the Tried and True TEAMFORTRESS 2. Their business Model is ironclad PERFECT, with new items to be bought nearly on a 2 month basis, true most of it is cosmetic and cost currency, but those same items (during the right times) can be aquired even by the most Joe-N00B of people.

MW:O actually punishes the players all for the wrong reasons.

I can actually call a STEAM or GAIGIN entertainment representative with research questions on how their economy work, and they'll be more than happy to oblige.

I've purchased two premium planes on Warthunder since playing. Why? Because they were ~10$ each.

[Darth Buddha]

PGI devs need to play WT.... I just hope they release more modes,,,

[Jon Gotham]

I agree on the events in WT-they generally are fine BUT and it is a BIG BUT.....
the base economy under it is utterly poor.
In my opinion with any F2p game, you should be able to get about halfway through the progression before money becomes a sensible option to invest. Currently in WT that is not the case. Get shot down sans any kills in HB at tier 5-you LOSE money, that's just one quarter of the way through. Tonight when I was queing up for an HB game, there was 7 players at tier 20. 11 at tiers 13-18. 20 at 5-6 and at 3-4. Hardly anyone can afford the end game because the earnings are so meager....
They need the events to keep the players....I can't always play when these events are on, so I miss out on them a lot of the time-so the base economy is more important to me. I worked out earlier it's actually more cost effective for me to buy lions with eagles than to get premium time....that's insane!

But I guess with this game is it the time it takes? I ref the guy that insulted me earlier with my "tired points" and "weak arguments." I'm sorry but if peope are complaining about this taking too long my lord what would they do going for the Mig 15bis in WT?
I personally don't see this huge grind......If I sit down for a few hours with clanmates by the end of it I have a couple of million earned that evening....around 150k-200k per game it soon adds up.....but then I guess as I'm still new I still enjoy playing the game and I don't have to have everything-I'm happy with my Kintaros and ravens.
Try going past tier 10 in WT...the grind especially xp is just hideous.....planes costing 500k+ when you only make 5-15k profit each match.......

I've had games on WoT where I have done more damage than my whole team AND the entire enemy team and still lost money-because we lost. I derive 0 fun from that. The fact that underperforming team mates can effectively take money from your virtual pocket is simply....CRAZY.

I'm sorry if I offend with my obviously naive approach, but playing this I have a game where I never lose money, make a decent amount of it and have attained all the mechs I wanted at the start all within a month...losing does not really phase me either because I know I won't lose out...I feel no pressure to "perform" and can focus on enjoying each match-compare that to the two other games I play and it's worlds apart.

I guess I'm just an *****.

Edited by kamiko kross, 17 November 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Darth Buddha]

I think the economy in MWO is really one of the best out their,,,, It allows for people with little pocket change to play the game and still get nice mechs.... I got my buddy some MC to entice him to play the game... He liked it enough to buy some on his own...

Charging so much for colors though is crazy... I am sure many players simply don't have the MC to dump in to paint jobs....

PGI really needs to think out side their box,, if they want to see real profits by turning this game into Mech heaven.

For example!!

A pay per Episode solo missions that told a story... Who doesn't like a good story.....
This would be a great way too help off set the price of new maps.

[HeavyRain]

kamiko kross, on 17 November 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Try going past tier 10 in WT...the grind especially xp is just hideous.....planes costing 500k+ when you only make 5-15k profit each match.......

I haven't played War Thunder, so I have to go by your own statement here.
If the prices you mention are true and you want to buy a 500k plane and make about 10k per match (I am assuming this is the average amount earned since you mention a range of 5k-15k) then you need to play 50 matches before you can afford it.
If you want to buy an assault mech in MWO and fit it with the necessary DHS (I will leave endo out of it although it's more or less necessary too) you will have to pay around 9 million (very conservative estimate just to illustrate the absurdity of the economy).
On average, people with no premium or heroes etc will make 85K c-bills per match (the devs told us so). I will assume that you are even better than average and make 100k per match when you account for wins and losses.
So, 9mil/100k gives us...90 matches.

This makes MWO grind 80% more hideous than WT grind. That's a whole different level of hideous then.

[Lucian Nostra]

The grind in War Thunder isn't that bad, I average 20-25k a match played after repairs in AB. You can lose ,money but you have to play really.. really... really poorly up to about tier 15 to do so. It's true in HB you can lose money if you get shot down before doing anything but you might lose 5k? While if you do decently in HB your looking at 30-50k in rewards for it, some people break 100k if they do monster.

But the main difference is that there is other stuff going on, your upgrading planes, leveling your nation while grinding out the money you need. A decent day sees a better pay out than what MWO offers up.

The other major difference is that while an un-upgraded plane in WT isn't amazing you can still do something while a stock mech in MWO isn't even worth using. (unless it already comes with DHS of course) The upgrades in WT are also cheap compared to very expensive in MWO

[WarHippy]

Darth Buddha, on 18 November 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I think the economy in MWO is really one of the best out their,,,, It allows for people with little pocket change to play the game and still get nice mechs.... I got my buddy some MC to entice him to play the game... He liked it enough to buy some on his own...

Charging so much for colors though is crazy... I am sure many players simply don't have the MC to dump in to paint jobs....

So the economy is one of the best out there, but you had to buy MC to get someone to play who in turn felt the need to buy more MC all while he should be getting fantastic income from his first 25 games? Seems a little odd to me.

I agree with you on the price of colors. Given how much they nickel and dime us for every little thing the price of colors probably should be rather cheap.

[Jon Gotham]

Lucian Nostra, on 18 November 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The grind in War Thunder isn't that bad, I average 20-25k a match played after repairs in AB. You can lose ,money but you have to play really.. really... really poorly up to about tier 15 to do so. It's true in HB you can lose money if you get shot down before doing anything but you might lose 5k? While if you do decently in HB your looking at 30-50k in rewards for it, some people break 100k if they do monster.

But the main difference is that there is other stuff going on, your upgrading planes, leveling your nation while grinding out the money you need. A decent day sees a better pay out than what MWO offers up.

The other major difference is that while an un-upgraded plane in WT isn't amazing you can still do something while a stock mech in MWO isn't even worth using. (unless it already comes with DHS of course) The upgrades in WT are also cheap compared to very expensive in MWO

You are looking at WT through a VERY biased pair of glasses.
By decently read: overperform. To get 25k in HB I would need to take down at least 5 planes. SOLO. What would the rest of my team be doing? Nothing!
Also I like the sly dig implied with your post-if you lose money you are bad lololol.
I had one memorable game where I scored 2 kills in my tier 8 ME109, around 16 hits got shot down and still didn't cover my repair cost. That is tier 8 out of 20.

Also stock mechs can be perfectly usable. Both economies in WT and WoT are much worse than MWO..much. I've played all three.
Another example in WoT in my M103, did 7k+ damage, 7 kills and used all my ammo, did not die and we won the match. I lost over 16k with a premium account, standard ammo.

That don't happen in MWO. C-bills practically fall out of the sky for heaven's sake!


This thread more accurately should be:
"The economy is not what I personally want it to be-so it's bad."

[Heffay]

HeavyRain, on 18 November 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

[/size]

I haven't played War Thunder, so I have to go by your own statement here.
If the prices you mention are true and you want to buy a 500k plane and make about 10k per match (I am assuming this is the average amount earned since you mention a range of 5k-15k) then you need to play 50 matches before you can afford it.
If you want to buy an assault mech in MWO and fit it with the necessary DHS (I will leave endo out of it although it's more or less necessary too) you will have to pay around 9 million (very conservative estimate just to illustrate the absurdity of the economy).
On average, people with no premium or heroes etc will make 85K c-bills per match (the devs told us so). I will assume that you are even better than average and make 100k per match when you account for wins and losses.
So, 9mil/100k gives us...90 matches.

Will 500k WT bongo-bucks get you the most expensive, kitted out plane? Because otherwise you're comparing a meh plane with the most expensive MWO mech, and calling it even.

[Ecto Cooler]

War Thunder is a great game but it's far from perfect. It starts out slow and throws all sorts of stuff at you, that's their hook. But like many games, it's only the beginning. Players at first might think it's better in comparison, but you'll realize it's very similar when you get into the game.

The grind is rowdy, especially as you get into the higher tiers. You won't find many people playing at higher levels either when jets come into play. One of the reasons being what others have discussed, it's very expensive and you can lose money. The planes themselves get to be very, very, expensive in later tiers as well. You tend to find a lot of the crowd playing at the lower tiers because of this.

Matchmaker is one of their most frequently complained about features, ala Mechwarrior Online.

You need to grind levels to unlock aircraft for various nations. Grind your crew per slot to handle and use that aircraft, including paying money if you want an "Ace" crew for that model. You need to grind enough currency to purchase the new planes after unlocking them, also for repairs and rearming (When you fire bombs / rockets, you're firing money.) Also, you need to grind by flying the plane itself to unlock essential upgrades for it.

Let's not forget it's not just a flight sim, it's supposed to have land and sea units which are not released yet.

So everyone who is claiming, "Look what War Thunder is doing!" needs to relax.

[WarHippy]

kamiko kross, on 18 November 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

This thread more accurately should be:
"The economy is not what I personally want it to be-so it's bad."

Sure, it could be called that, but it is no different than you proclaiming this is the greatest economy of all time and c-bills are practically falling from the sky. Both are personal opinions, and neither holds more weight than the other.