269 replies to this topic

[HeavyRain]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Will 500k WT bongo-bucks get you the most expensive, kitted out plane? Because otherwise you're comparing a meh plane with the most expensive MWO mech, and calling it even.

The most expensive, kitted out mech in this game costs 9 million? More like 12 to 13.

[Heffay]

HeavyRain, on 18 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

The most expensive, kitted out mech in this game costs 9 million? More like 12 to 13.

Is that equivalent to 500k bongo bucks in WT? You want the top tier toon there with all the upgrades... that is 500k?

[Chronojam]

Ecto Cooler, on 18 November 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Let's not forget it's not just a flight sim, it's supposed to have land and sea units which are not released yet.

If only we could say "MWO right now is only a mech sim, it's supposed to have ground and air forces added soon" to live up to the precedent set by the free fan project MechWarrior: Living Legends that was pushed aside.

[Chronojam]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Is that equivalent to 500k bongo bucks in WT? You want the top tier toon there with all the upgrades... that is 500k?

You can literally fly around in free biplanes shooting down premium murdermachines and chasing down B-25s. If you want to be top tier, you get better as a pilot before you invest in aircraft you can neither understand how to fly nor understand how to maintain and repair.

All aircraft can be repaired for free, despite what under-informed players will claim, for example. Land at an airfield? Free repairs in fifteen seconds, maybe a minute and a half if you've got nothing but your left wing remaining since your engine and tail were lost long ago! Most players leave post-match autorepair on which does cost money and is intended to supplement simply waiting a short time for your ground crew to do their work out-of-battle.

You are supposed to be rotating your aircraft variants in and out, but many folks pick four planes and then just pay to insta-repair them after every round. If you're not very good and cycle through matches really quickly, that can add up! If you only lose two planes per match and let your ground crew repair either midgame or between rounds, your repair costs plummet into the realm of being trivial. Repeatedly smashing jets into the mountainside then paying to repair instantly is obviously going to be expensive.

You can't just say, "Oh, he spent 500,000 funbucks so he's better." A bad bomber pilot's going to immediately buy the most expensive bombs for his twin-engine that he can and miss with half of them against unarmored ground troops. He'll run out of money fast. A good bomber's in a sleek single-engine that cost one fifth as much, holding a half dozen 50kg or 100kg bombs, perfectly nailing tanks or setting fuzes to punch through the hulls of ships, and will rake in the cash.

[Deathlike]

Chronojam, on 18 November 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

You can literally fly around in free biplanes shooting down premium murdermachines and chasing down B-25s. If you want to be top tier, you get better as a pilot before you invest in aircraft you can neither understand how to fly nor understand how to maintain and repair.

All aircraft can be repaired for free, despite what under-informed players will claim, for example. Land at an airfield? Free repairs in fifteen seconds, maybe a minute and a half if you've got nothing but your left wing remaining since your engine and tail were lost long ago! Most players leave post-match autorepair on which does cost money and is intended to supplement simply waiting a short time for your ground crew to do their work out-of-battle.

You are supposed to be rotating your aircraft variants in and out, but many folks pick four planes and then just pay to insta-repair them after every round. If you're not very good and cycle through matches really quickly, that can add up! If you only lose two planes per match and let your ground crew repair either midgame or between rounds, your repair costs plummet into the realm of being trivial. Repeatedly smashing jets into the mountainside then paying to repair instantly is obviously going to be expensive.

You can't just say, "Oh, he spent 500,000 funbucks so he's better." A bad bomber pilot's going to immediately buy the most expensive bombs for his twin-engine that he can and miss with half of them against unarmored ground troops. He'll run out of money fast. A good bomber's in a sleek single-engine that cost one fifth as much, holding a half dozen 50kg or 100kg bombs, perfectly nailing tanks or setting fuzes to punch through the hulls of ships, and will rake in the cash.

Are you saying being reckless with something expensive is bad for you? What where you thinking??!?!?!!?!?!

Edited by Deathlike, 18 November 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Heffay]

Chronojam, on 18 November 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

You can literally fly around in free biplanes shooting down premium murdermachines and chasing down B-25s. If you want to be top tier, you get better as a pilot before you invest in aircraft you can neither understand how to fly nor understand how to maintain and repair.

All aircraft can be repaired for free, despite what under-informed players will claim, for example. Land at an airfield? Free repairs in fifteen seconds, maybe a minute and a half if you've got nothing but your left wing remaining since your engine and tail were lost long ago! Most players leave post-match autorepair on which does cost money and is intended to supplement simply waiting a short time for your ground crew to do their work out-of-battle.

You are supposed to be rotating your aircraft variants in and out, but many folks pick four planes and then just pay to insta-repair them after every round. If you're not very good and cycle through matches really quickly, that can add up! If you only lose two planes per match and let your ground crew repair either midgame or between rounds, your repair costs plummet into the realm of being trivial. Repeatedly smashing jets into the mountainside then paying to repair instantly is obviously going to be expensive.

You can't just say, "Oh, he spent 500,000 funbucks so he's better." A bad bomber pilot's going to immediately buy the most expensive bombs for his twin-engine that he can and miss with half of them against unarmored ground troops. He'll run out of money fast. A good bomber's in a sleek single-engine that cost one fifth as much, holding a half dozen 50kg or 100kg bombs, perfectly nailing tanks or setting fuzes to punch through the hulls of ships, and will rake in the cash.

What does 500,000 get you as far as a plane?

Edited by Heffay, 18 November 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[HeavyRain]

Their wiki says that 490k gets you a P-38 Lightning. That's 50 matches' worth of fake money.
50 matches' worth of fake money here is 4.250.000. That gets you...well...a stock light with DHS thrown in. Maybe a Cicada if you save 400.000 extra.
Someone who plays both games can tell us if the stock Jenner (+DHS) is equivalent to the Lightning in WT.

[Chronojam]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

What does 500,000 get you as far as a plane?

530,000 lions should buy a (Tier 15) Tu-25 heavy bomber. Its maximum repair cost, assuming you ram it into the mountainside after being lit on fire and have nothing left at all, is under 4,000 lions.

[Heffay]

HeavyRain, on 18 November 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Their wiki says that 490k gets you a P-38 Lightning. That's 50 matches' worth of fake money.
50 matches' worth of fake money here is 4.250.000. That gets you...well...a stock light with DHS thrown in. Maybe a Cicada if you save 400.000 extra.
Someone who plays both games can tell us if the stock Jenner (+DHS) is equivalent to the Lightning in WT.

Could someone starting from scratch with no premium time get a set of 3 Atlases all mastered out before you can get your first tier 20 plane?

[HeavyRain]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Could someone starting from scratch with no premium time get a set of 3 Atlases all mastered out before you can get your first tier 20 plane?

I don't know how their system works, someone who plays WT could tell us if you can buy a tier 20 plane after 447 matches.

[Ecto Cooler]

HeavyRain, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I don't know how their system works, someone who plays WT could tell us if you can buy a tier 20 plane after 447 matches.

You could probably afford to buy the plane, but you won't be Tier 20 by any stretch.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

HeavyRain, on 18 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

The most expensive, kitted out mech in this game costs 9 million? More like 12 to 13.

Hrm.... let's add modules shall we? 6 mirrion there, 6 mirrion there, 4 mirrion there... well I've already beat your number just off the standard C-Bill cost of the modules.........

GXP not included rofl.

That's not even including the fact you need atleast 2 more variants worth of C-Bills.

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 18 November 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

WarHippy, on 18 November 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Sure, it could be called that, but it is no different than you proclaiming this is the greatest economy of all time and c-bills are practically falling from the sky. Both are personal opinions, and neither holds more weight than the other.

I have never claimed that. what I did claim is, it's superior to both WT and WoT AND is not as bad as people are making out.
I also offered my OPINION as to why that is.
Don't put words into my mouth please.

Edited by kamiko kross, 18 November 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[WarHippy]

kamiko kross, on 18 November 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

I have never claimed that. what I did claim is, it's superior to both WT and WoT AND is not as bad as people are making out.
I also offered my OPINION as to why that is.
Don't put words into my mouth please.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth. You said the economy is one of the best you have ever seen(admittedly I twisted that part a bit with some embellishments), and the part about c-bills falling from the sky was nearly a direct quote. I pointed out that your opinion was no more valid than someone else's, but because of your condescending language when you state your opinion in some of these posts it comes off as if you are stating your opinion as fact. I was merely trying to ground you in a little reality.

Trying to belittle people by making them look whiney with statements like they just want it "NOW", we should rename this thread(insert nonsense), or false statements such as people wanting to play for free and have the same rate of profit and convenience as a paying customer just make you look petty. Having a difference of opinion is not an excuse to be rude to other posters.

[Heffay]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 18 November 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Hrm.... let's add modules shall we? 6 mirrion there, 6 mirrion there, 4 mirrion there... well I've already beat your number just off the standard C-Bill cost of the modules.........

GXP not included rofl.

That's not even including the fact you need atleast 2 more variants worth of C-Bills.

Ok, let's draw this out even further. Could you master 3 Atlases and have the modules you want unlocked all for free, or get your first tier 20 plane in WT first?

[blazing glory]

new-ish player coming through. I happened upon MWO,remembering having a lot of fun on mechwarrior 4 I grabbed this and I am appalled at how long it takes to simply get a medium mech,now you'd think that I would be able to get a reasonable amount of money through the 25 matches c-bill bonus,BUT I was still relearning how to play a mechwarrior game and adjusting to how experianced the players were and adjusting to how much mech armor had been toned down and so on.By the time I had adjusted fully I was long past the c-bill bonus and scraped enough money to buy a light mech,true you never lose any money and money falls from the sky like rain,BUT your not buying a car worth 1 million dollars with the light rain of quarters any time soon,I am getting bored over having very little rewards.

[Chronojam]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Could someone starting from scratch with no premium time get a set of 3 Atlases all mastered out before you can get your first tier 20 plane?

Probably, and you sure wouldn't know how to use the Tier 20 plane properly even if you somehow did. One of the "hard" things about War Thunder is that the countries and planes by and large feel very different, minor variants excepted. So a Hawk and an Ishak might both appear to be your introductory Tier 2 monoplane, but they play radically different and have much different weaponry, climb, turn, airspeed, and armor profiles. One of the neat event/premium unlocks you can sometimes get are being able to use one of the other nation's planes in your lineups (so your RU fighter lineup could also have a US seaplane bomber)

Edited by Chronojam, 18 November 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[-Natural Selection-]

Twinking lvl 2-3 in decked Russian out biplanes with 700+ crews is where it is at in WT. When you get above level 12 it just gets out of hand. But hey, they at least give out gold eagles (MC) every other month for coming on and winning a couple matches.

[Blurry]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Ok, let's draw this out even further. Could you master 3 Atlases and have the modules you want unlocked all for free, or get your first tier 20 plane in WT first?

Ok my choice is simple - I chose the one where the matchmaking is as superior as the game play.

sorry but this game losses hands down in matchmaking - pugging - social/group play enabled in game/ game play - grind - and lack of fun. maybe they call them up and ask for help? not sure but whatever it is they have now isnt working.

Maybe milking the casuals is doing well for now but longevity wise I just dont see it happening.

[Jon Gotham]

WarHippy, on 18 November 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

I'm not putting any words in your mouth. You said the economy is one of the best you have ever seen(admittedly I twisted that part a bit with some embellishments), and the part about c-bills falling from the sky was nearly a direct quote. I pointed out that your opinion was no more valid than someone else's, but because of your condescending language when you state your opinion in some of these posts it comes off as if you are stating your opinion as fact. I was merely trying to ground you in a little reality.

Trying to belittle people by making them look whiney with statements like they just want it "NOW", we should rename this thread(insert nonsense), or false statements such as people wanting to play for free and have the same rate of profit and convenience as a paying customer just make you look petty. Having a difference of opinion is not an excuse to be rude to other posters.

I could say the same to you.
Re-read the tone of some of what they said.
I'm sorry if I caused any offence to anyone, but......some of what has been said IS just whining. Some of them have been rather aggressive and rude with their own posts, essentially calling us either fan boys or liars. Because many of us believe that the economy is not actually bad at all. When I tried at the start of my involvement to be polite with it I essentially got shouted down by posters who seemingly have entitlement issues.

I made comparisons with WT and WoT because I felt they were kinda the direct contenders. The WT economy IS worse than this, that Is a FACT. The ques for games in HB in WT are testament to this fact. There is hardly anyone at high tier, hardly anyone can afford to run the planes because of the insane repair cost. Gaijin put in a free repair mode to alleviate the loss if you are prepared to wait for your plane.....some of them take DAYS to repair. As low as tier 6 out of 20 can take over 5 hours! Yet, people still get really antsy over it because I and others disagree.
I actually sat down last night and worked out how fast it would take me to get to tier 20 in WT and own my first tier 20 plane compared to buying three atlases....WT lost by a HUGE factor
What people seem to be angry about is the amount of time it takes to get ALL what they WANT. It used to be better? Now it's worse?
If half of these guys had been in 1.27 WT earning 40k+ per game on a non premium account and then after the economy nerf went down to 10k per game, all with increased research costs and repairs....what do you think they'd be saying? They'd be justified in complaining! In that game a bad team can utterly cost you sorely. A lucky shot from an enemy can send you into the negative instantly. What you think will be a 50 game grind to get that shiny plane will in fact be closer to a 100 or so-because the economy actively punishes you for any slight failure, be it yours or your team's.

In MWO, NONE of this happens. That's why I am so incensed by the whining and complaining. You are NEVER punished at any stage-only if you waste the money you have making bad choices.
People don't realise how forgiving this game's economy is compared to the competitors.

A lot of the complainers have been gently told, prodded and then smacked in the face with facts about other titles that we play-yet STILL continue to come back to this thread and put the boot in.
Why?

As I said at the start, I did not want to offend anyone, but people calling me petty like you did is quite galling when you ( and many of the complainers )are guilty of it sir, and especially in the manner of how you went about it-most insulting.
So, I'm truly sorry if I upset anyone but please consider one thing: This game does not punish you for failure-be it yours or your team's. The only thing that punishes you is impatience.

Edited by kamiko kross, 19 November 2013 - 11:40 AM.