99 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

CancR, on 16 August 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Yep. It does way to much and has been broken for far to long.

So you just don't like ECM in general then?

[Joseph Mallan]

Dimento Graven, on 16 August 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

So you just don't like ECM in general then?

Doesn't change that what he said is true.

[Taemien]

Dimento Graven, on 16 August 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Wow... Just... Wow... I'm flabbergasted that you think this. It's like we're playing two completely different games... First off, in my Raven 3L, I don't even use the three energy slots for damage dealing. I pack 2 ML's and 1 tag, and even since the nerf in streaks STILL take out more Jenners than other 'mech.

When I'm in any of my other 'mechs, none of which have streaks loaded, I kill the big fat Jenners all the time with my ER PPC's, gauss, lasers, SRM's and LRM's, ONLY the LRM's would be affected by ECM, so I don't see the Jenner suddenly becoming the MWO god of all gods with ECM.

Let's review the load outs again, just so maybe we can figure out how they suddenly become invincible death machines laying waste to all 'mechs on the battle field:

JR7-K - 4E, 1M
JR7-F - 6E
JR7-D - 4E, 2M

Nope, ECM doesn't add an AC/20 slot or a gauss cannon, so, again how does it unbalance the lights?

Probably a good half the time I've fought Jenners in my Raven, there's been enough enemy ECM around to counter mine and block my steaks, so when I've fought Jenners in my Raven, it's been through the 2 ML's I maintain on it.

They still die. Those great big side torsos so easy to hit, so easy to bust up an XL, or to work your way to the CT it's not even difficult at the short range you typically have to fight them.

With only energy and a few missile slots, they don't have the armament to get through my armor before I've cored them in one or two PPC/Laser/gauss/AC/SRM alphas that the rest of my 'mechs typically carry. Yeah, if they hang back and wait until I'm significantly damaged, the story MAY change, but then it's not the ECM that's killing me, it's smart piloting.

ECM doesn't boost weapons, it doesn't make 'mechs faster, it doesn't make them untargetable to direct fire weapons, so HOW, EXACTLY HOW, will ECM in a Jenner break game balance?

Sounds like your ELO for lights is rather low if those Jenners pose no threat.

But as I said, go ahead and add it in, I'll use it, and people will cry, HARD on these forums for it to be removed. I'll wager on that.

[Dimento Graven]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 August 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

Doesn't change that what he said is true.

That ECM is broken and does too much, or the Jenner? He's not very clear...

Taemien, on 16 August 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Sounds like your ELO for lights is rather low if those Jenners pose no threat.

But as I said, go ahead and add it in, I'll use it, and people will cry, HARD on these forums for it to be removed. I'll wager on that.

Yeah, that's it...

Besides, ain't nothing that can be changed without invoking tons and tons of QQ'ing...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 16 August 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[TDR3D]

I've just read this thread in its entirety and I am perplexed as to how people are defining the roles of different light mechs.

Yes, the Jenner is the best skirmisher because it has the weapon hardpoints and locations for that to be factually true. How do other light mechs therefore become 'better at scouting/recon'? There aren't any tools excluded from Jenners that make themes capable scouting, apart from ECM.

While giving ECM to jenners won't make them that much more powerful, it will completely invalidate the need to take anything except this chassis, At least in terms of raw capability. If you are a lore fanatic or want to stand out from the crowd, you'd then take a non-Jenner.

My post is under the assumption that spider hit boxes will be fixed one day. Otherwise the spider is arguably better than the Jenner currently, due to its artificial HP it has from its unreliable hitboxes.

[Khobai]

Jenners already outclass Commandos-2Ds in every frickin way. They dont need to outclass them even more.

If anything Jenners need to be nerfed and slowed down to 140 so smaller mechs can outrun them. Because its really unfair that a Jenner has a 10 ton advantage on a Commando, runs faster, has 50% more firepower, and jumpjets. There is literally no reason to play a Commando because of that.

At least the Spider gets its screwed up hit box. the Commando gets nothing. Its time for Commando pilots to unite and rise up against their Jenner opressors.

Edited by Khobai, 17 August 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[BookWyrm]

Commandos cost less and have that suave gingerbread man strut. No contest.

[Lorcan Lladd]

ECM on a Jenner seems like it's a little bit too much...

I think it would be better to add one more module slot on the JR7-K - with this, it could feasibly acquire its own niche to be used as the scout Jenner variant for pilots willing to pass over the better-armed JR7-D and JR7-F.
This would give it a total of four module slots once Master pilot skills are unlocked and purchased, which is perfect for Target Decay, Seismic, UAV and Target Info Gathering.

Well, I would like that, at least.

[GODzillaGSPB]

The Jenner is still THE fighting light, that's his edge. 1 on 1 a Jenner easily beats the Raven, Commando and Spider and can even go against the Cicada. Why would this mech need another buff? It does not imho.

[aseth]

No thanks.

I had a Jenner I never really played from the Founders package until I picked up Sarah's Mech. I really enjoyed being able to play the D(S) and the F without feeling that "I'm playing the wrong variant", like I did when I was working up my Ravens. Yeah, the K has issues, but if it had ECM it'd clearly be "the right one to play".

[Foxfire]

I primarily pilot jenners and a Raven... The Jenner with ECM(even if it is the K) would be too... much.

What is needed for the K are modules that are actually worth it to use.

[Akulakhan]

As much as I love the lights, the Jenner doesn't need ECM. The D already wipes the floor with every other ECM mech except, occasionally, a D-DC. Ravens and Commandos are certainly second-rate, but their ECM allows them to stay viable.

Putting it on the K though, isn't a horrible idea. It's the worst variant by far and very likely the least played of the three. It should at least be considered.

[Lupin]

Seem to remember a vote at the time when ECM first introduced in closed Beta, and then most said it would over power the Jenner.
I pilot a lot of light Mechs and I have a founder Jenner, and still think it does not need it.

[Sir Ratburger]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 14 August 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

No more mechs should receive ECM until PGI balances it to the point where every mech can use ECM without it being an issue.

Oh please no, Everyone with an ECM would be awful... I am very grateful there are only a few variants that use ECM and most are the lights and a medium mech. larger mechs should not have an ECM... why you ask.

Say goodbye to missile locks, say goodbye to having a brawl and not seeing anybody's damaged sections. it would be chaos. the great thing about lights having ECM is that they can tactically scurry off and scout, they can also try cap in safety and when it suits them they can run with a team and shield them but if they end up in the middle of a fire fight they have to break off for cover so its a very tactical descision.

The atlas with the ECM is an acceptable idea because it usually gets left behind, when joining a fight it again provides a tactical advantage but by then your team is probably so damaged its needed an a really good confusion tactic for the enemy, its also good to jam a light mechs ECM who usually sneak up behind you and are used to eating Atlas's for breakfast... and there is only 1 large mech in the whole game that can use the ECM (so far as I know) and thats the 1 Atlas, which makes it not so unbalanced.

Giving everyone an ECM would kill the game, it would add so many element of confusion, completely destroy the use of missiles apart from SRM's, you may as well never look at your radar or enemy armour damage screen because they would never work and generally just make everyone play heavies or assaults with ECM's and ppc's.

Horrible horrible idea!

Edited by Sir Ratburger, 19 August 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[Kunae]

Lupin, on 19 August 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Seem to remember a vote at the time when ECM first introduced in closed Beta, and then most said it would over power the Jenner.
I pilot a lot of light Mechs and I have a founder Jenner, and still think it does not need it.

ECM was introduced in OB, and it was after we had the imbalance due to them removing knockdowns. The only reason this poll, and the angst it demonstrated, even existed was because of the hatred generated against Jenners, by all the noobs taking them out with no knockdowns and with lag-shield.

It isn't a matter of whether it "needs" it, it's a matter of it should have it, as ALL of the other lights have one. It would have had one too, if people could have seen past their irrational hatred of the Jenner at the time, which wasn't it's fault. It was PGI's for taking out knockdown.

[egreSS]

Kunae, on 16 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

egreSS, on 16 August 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

That's because the Jenner makes up for it in every other way by being totally badass.

Again, that's irrelevant. A mech's current strength in the ephemeral meta, should not be taken into consideration for something like this.

lol WHAT?! THAT'S COMPLETELY RELEVANT!

[Deathlike]

There's no irrational hate for the Jenner... there's actually legitimate points to the Jenner being powerful AND I love the Jenner. Most of the comments about the Jenner being powerful is true... and this is w/o ECM. This doesn't even factor the proliferation of Sarah's Jenner all over the place... the Jenner is almost literally the one stop light mech that when pilotly correctly puts every light mech to shame, at comparable skill levels.

[Kunae]

egreSS, on 19 August 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

lol WHAT?! THAT'S COMPLETELY RELEVANT!

No. It's called balancing for the moment, rather than for the long-term balance and health of the game. It should not be done.

Deathlike, on 19 August 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

There's no irrational hate for the Jenner... there's actually legitimate points to the Jenner being powerful AND I love the Jenner. Most of the comments about the Jenner being powerful is true... and this is w/o ECM. This doesn't even factor the proliferation of Sarah's Jenner all over the place... the Jenner is almost literally the one stop light mech that when pilotly correctly puts every light mech to shame, at comparable skill levels.

There's a ton of irrational hate for the Jenner. Just as, right now, there's a ton if irrational hate towards the spider, again due to PGI fudging the squirrel.

Bring back knockdowns, and fix hit detection, and you'll see how unjustified all of this angst is. It will be rare to see lights, after that point, especially ones without ECM.

[Deathlike]

Kunae, on 19 August 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Bring back knockdowns, and fix hit detection, and you'll see how unjustified all of this angst is. It will be rare to see lights, after that point, especially ones without ECM.

One thing about knockdowns is that people who like it seems to think this is panacea that fixes everything.. it is not. I understand people not liking how light mechs "pass through them" with good reason, but you know this effect is not limited to light mechs. Sometimes I wonder the people arguing for such a feature try to justify it with weak reasoning.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

ECM won't save you from other Jenners, so there's little point to having it. /thread