70 replies to this topic

[mack sabbath]

cdlord, on 15 August 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

I have lost count of how many times I have spearheaded an attack in my Atlas or Victor or other assault only to die alone. The longer we stay alive, the more damage we can do on the enemy. You should be sure that the assault pilot is in on the plan to push and then you better be sure not to abandon it on the front. Assaults cannot turn and fall back on a dime. When we commit to a maneuver, it's usually for good.

Funny, that's almost exactly how my ex-wife described marriage.......

[LoveLost85]

I think it all really boils down to pilot awareness and competence. your brawling for your life against one or two enemy and you see a group of allies a hundred meters away behind cover, they lack awareness. you see 4 allies pushing out into the fray and you follow only to have them turn tail and run leaving you to eat it in your slow assault, lack of competence and commitment. ive seen many matches lost cause a few people freak out and start running even when the ground was fair, and they wasted themselves. you see an assault hanging way in the back with his one lrm20, again, lack of competence as hes relying solely on others locks that most likely wont be kept and hell shoot the Cliffside. all these points can easily translate to other mech classes also, keep that in mind. what about the only 2 lights on your team running off at the start of a conquest match and thinking they can solo the enemy team and die, leaving you without cappers. its the people, not the mech

[Bishop Steiner]

Zekester81, on 15 August 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

In BT (books at least) Assaults were not meant to be the leading mechs. The majority of mechs were mediums and most of the fighting was done with them. Assaults were just too expensive to be wasted like that. (not defending pilot cowardice)

When tonnage comes into play, there just won't be that many assaults left in the game. They will become rare. They will need defending. They will be relegated to the role of support, occasionally moving up to engage another assault on the enemy team. So front-line medium is right. You're using that medium the way it was meant to be used. You should be able to count on your assaults to back you up though.

In the books, it was always described as an awesome thing when two assaults squared off, and it wasn't until the clans had been around for a while when it became more common for them to become front-line. Just think of them as playing their role. Not counting new players, players who don't know how to use their mech, and of course: cowardice. You just can't make everyone fight. Not counting the cowards, defend those players who don't seem to have the hang of their mechs. The more chance you give them to live, (hopefully) the better they will get.

um....wrong?

Assaults were specifically reserved for making the spearheads, and when the battle must be won at all costs. So if they were on the field, SPEARHEADING AN ASSAULT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING. If you want this to represent "Lore" so much (and unlike your comment, actually be fluff accurate) then most matches would simply not feature any assault mechs. Period.

[WildeKarde]

It depends on the match. You gain nothing in a PUG leading the charge to be the sole target for the enemy assaults and LRMS coming in (you can't dodge easily behind cover).

Sometimes it's better for an assault to see the layout for the enemy mechs to position themselves in the best position (slowly usually ).

If played right a single assault could turn a battle if it engages at the optimum time. If it gets caught alone by lights (or even quicker bigger mechs) then it's either game over or some serious damage if you live.

[Musashi Alexander]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 August 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

um....wrong?

Assaults were specifically reserved for making the spearheads, and when the battle must be won at all costs. So if they were on the field, SPEARHEADING AN ASSAULT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING. If you want this to represent "Lore" so much (and unlike your comment, actually be fluff accurate) then most matches would simply not feature any assault mechs. Period.

Agree. What should an assault mech's role be? It's pretty much clear in the title 'assault'

[Tskeet]

No tonnage balance? No comparison to lore makes sense. In fact, no comparison to any sort of warfare makes sense because there are always limits.

There isn't much reason to not drop as a heavy/assault in the current meta. In real life, there would be costs, mech availability, skilled pilots, etc.. But to balance this we must institute a clear tonnage system, or better yet a battle-value point system. Yea I'm beating a dead horse

[GODzillaGSPB]

Napes339, on 15 August 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

This has been the case for a long time but it may have seemed to have been less of an issue when the whole meta was PPC ridge sniping because almost everyone was hunkering down.

When I lead the push (usually in a medium or one of my lighter heavies) I'll take the time to type "Push now" or something to that affect just before running in guns blazing. Its payed off on occasion but it can also turn me into a lonely pile of scrap metal.

My long-time problem since closed beta: I use a throttle and when I type in the chat, my mech stops dead. Someone suggested I need to set the speed at least one time with the keyboard, but that did not work.

So far, PGI seems to be ignorant of this problem. I guess they can always say that the game is meant to be played with mouse and keyboard, not with mouse and throttle.

So yea, I do type, but it always carries the risk of being an easy target. Frankly, it su**s.

[DegeneratePervert]

The popular LRM Atlas makes me rage so hard.

[Utilyan]

mrbounce, on 15 August 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

^^ Yes I personally think tonnage balance will be one of the greatest changes to this game's core mechanics in a seriously good way.


As for hanging back, it's just a symptom of PUGing. When I play any game with people I know, I'll trust their calls and orders because I know they know what they're doing. Thus we become more than the sum of our parts (1 + 1 = 3).

In a PUG I make basic calls which are frequently ignored; that's just how it is.

I had folks who followed me on a mission to free the frozen mechs from dropships with flamers in frozen city.

Point is I think you'd be suprised by the eagerness of folks willing to do anything for any reason.


You can tell folks to defend a bridge for the sake of bacon.....and sure enough folks will rally.....more so with 12 vs 12.


As a general tip don't ever whine or complain on your team channel. Never helps, losing teams frequently have a whiner.

[IceCase88]

Assaults were designed to enter the battlefield while all the enemy is engaged to mop them up. They are not designed to be the point man for your force. They, among all the other weight classes, were supposed to have balanced weapons to hit hard at all ranges. Hammer away at the enemy as they approached the battlefield. Loading an assault mech down with LRMs and little other complimentary weapons is a waste. Not very helpful to the team. I think the AWS is the exception to this rule since its torsi are so broad it is designed to be a siege mech or standoff mech.

[Ronan]

MadMaxMKII, on 15 August 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

true. lately I lost many games in which the assaults just stand in the last lines and shooting their Lrm20, gauss, ER-PPC and whatever. but on the frontline their meatbodies are missing.

that said, it is ok if the assault is maybe a pure lrm boat (AWS 8R, 8V), but with only one LRM20 launcher get your ***** to the front -.-

These pilots seem to miss the fact that they have just a little LRM ammo... the fire the LRM 20 while they walk (slowly, so they get a couple shots) to their target, then finish it close. But no, they take the stock ammo count and run it way up, then try to never engage. Doesn't work as we've all seen... the frontlines get killed and the back-line support-assaults get swarmed.

<sigh>

[Praehotec8]

As others have said, pushing with an assault is about timing. I run my assaults mostly as brawlers generally with little to no long-range weaponry. I'm happy to lead a charge:

1.) IF I am close enough or have distractions enough to close the gap without being turned into a doughnut by PPC/gauss snipers, and
2.) IF I have enough backup to make it not a pointless suicide run, because (as pointed out by others) once you enter the fray in an assault you're usually committed to win or die.

The only exceptions I have are my awesome (who tries to make best use of its PPCs by remaining at range so it doesn't get cored instantly) and my victor who is fast enough to sometimes make a probe into the enemy and escape.

[Herodes]

I play only assaults and heavies and mostly in a striker / bralwer role, and while I generally agree that my place is right where the fire burns hot, I see some negative issues with that.

1) I am slow. Often my team runs ahead or away on a squirrel hunt, thus reducing my options and usefulness in a fight. Can't really be efficient when I am always running to barely catch up.

2) Very often, when the team charges, everyone runs away on the first enemy shots. I can't do that and die from focussed fire.

3) No one protects my back from lights and fast mediums. I either ignore them and die or I try chasing them off myself, being inefficient at the task and wasting my potential and eventually my life.

4) Often I want to round that corner to cover my smaller comrades, but can't because of "traffic jams" of my team while smaller machines get wasted by the enemy one by one.

5) When charging in an assault the own team constantly runs right into my line of fire. So I either don't fire of move around them, which is somewhat annoying.

While I can see the expectations one might have regarding the role and courage of an assault, I do have expectations for my teammates, too. And they are also rarely met.

So ... the truth is a three edged sword. Their side, my side, and the truth

[BOWMANGR]

As 12v12 days go by I find myself more and more in the role of frontline Medium. And it sucks! It is so frustrating to follow an Assault in order to cover its back if needed AND try to flank its opponent when it commits, only to find that your assault is hiding behind cover playing peekabo with its 70 tons of armor while SOMEONE has to make a frontline. If that someone is a mech with 1/3 of the armor it is NOT going to end well.

Assaults are not for hiding, they are damage absorbers so that others can get out of hiding and do their thing, which is NOT frontline combat. It's FORCE MULTIPLIER. That's what a Medium or even Heavy should do, not fight up front so that Assaults can stay alive on the battlefield for a bit more and then die alone as they get surrounded.

Every single time the other team charged with their assaults and my team's assaults were playing hide and seek we lost. It's obvious why. All this armor goes to waste if you don't finish the fight with 2/3 of it missing. That missing chunks of armor would otherwise be DAMAGE to your teammates.

So, want to play Assault properly? Get up there and fight. Do not stupidly charge ofcourse but do not try to stay alive at any cost while Medium/Heavies are dying and dropping like flies around you because you WILL die eventually if you cowardly hide when they are in trouble.

Rant over.

Edited by BOWMANGR, 15 August 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[Herodes]

I do get out, I do fight, I make the sacrifice fot the team, but it is oh so often in vain or just wasted as the team just can't or won't use my sacrifice to our overall advantage.

Thus I die often. If I would care about KDR and stats I sure as hell would not play that role that you want me to play. Fortunately I don't care for stats and feel heroic every time I am gunned down.

[Angel of Annihilation]

GODzillaGSPB, on 15 August 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

I've lately noticed, especially now that 12 vs 12 is in and people are afraid of getting focused by a dozen mechs, that assaults more and more take the role of supporters, staying behind. LRMs, obviously. But also an Atlas with an ac20 and one ac2 (and nothing more). I can only pressume he spend the rest on heatsinks and ac2 ammo...

In several games, where we actually and clearly gained the upper hand those same assaults still hid in their cover while the frontline mediums (yeah...frontline mediums... ) and heavies were already pretty beaten up and had to make the last push towards victory on their own.

I usually play medium and it's really frustrating to do frontline duty. Lately I've won many of my games...dead. These assaults survived. So is that it? Is that the reason they take that role, to survive? Thanks for nothing!

Think about this, dear support assaults: When weight limits are in the game, you'll be a much smaller group. Yes, you will survive back in your trenchses, but once the frontline mediums and heavies are dealt with, you'll die surrounded and alone.

First of all, some of what your talking about it just bad builds combined with bad players. The AC/20. AC/2 build is obviously an example of this and unfortunately much too common. However, considering all the underlying mechanics someone has to understand to come up with a decent build, mechanics that aren't really visable in game and require TT knowledge, hours on the forums and/or use of 3rd party sites like Smurfy's can you really expect the average joe to understand how to make a good build?

Second, I have recently changed out my DDC from the traditional AC/20, 2ML, 3 SRM6 brawling build to a midrange support build (2 ER PPCs, 2 LRM15s + Artemis, UAC/5). Why? because I got to thinking about the DDC and its use of ECM.

It is a slow mech so takes forever to get to brawling range a range I might add where ECM doesn't do a whole lot since in Brawling range you are easy to see and target AND your a primary target. Also your very near to being inside LRM range that close so it doesn't matter if your ECM is screening against LRMs or not. Lastly, when your that close to the fight, often your going find your ECM countered by BAP, TAG or other ECM using mechs.

However if you play midrange support your out of range of those counters, harder to see and target effectively and able to screen your backfield against enemy LRMs. You also live longer to provide that support.

This isn't cowardice. This is using tactics to enhance your teams chance of victory.

Basically be sure of your understanding of what those Assaults are trying to do before you jump to a conclusion.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 15 August 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Spookyshoes]

As an Assault pilot these are my thoughts.
1) Lack of Armor - My Atlas D-DC with max armour does not have enough to survive either a pack of Lights, or being the meat bag.

2) Too slow - I get it, I am supposed to be I am an assault mech, but with current 12v12 speed is king.

So what else is there except to run a sniper/lrm boat and use the terrain for protection.

Sure if there was some sort of incentive, I dunno either

a) Charge Bonus - First Assault to cross halfway or engage 3 enemy mechs at once.
Meat Shield - Take over 60% damage without being cored.

Then we might see a change, but as it stands I would rather play with my Wang and AC20 shooting other Atlai in the back.

[Vrox]

cdlord, on 15 August 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

I have lost count of how many times I have spearheaded an attack in my Atlas or Victor or other assault only to die alone. The longer we stay alive, the more damage we can do on the enemy. You should be sure that the assault pilot is in on the plan to push and then you better be sure not to abandon it on the front. Assaults cannot turn and fall back on a dime. When we commit to a maneuver, it's usually for good.

Too true, once you are out, you are committed and there no turning back as assault does not run. Please remember assault is big and easy to hit and the armour cannot withstand multiple hit from gauss, erppc, ac20, lrm in 12v12 without support from our team. I lost count of me dying in a ball of flame and find out my support ran away on a charge. It seems to me that only the light would not abandon me.

[Vrox]

Herodes, on 15 August 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I play only assaults and heavies and mostly in a striker / bralwer role, and while I generally agree that my place is right where the fire burns hot, I see some negative issues with that.

1) I am slow. Often my team runs ahead or away on a squirrel hunt, thus reducing my options and usefulness in a fight. Can't really be efficient when I am always running to barely catch up.

2) Very often, when the team charges, everyone runs away on the first enemy shots. I can't do that and die from focussed fire.

3) No one protects my back from lights and fast mediums. I either ignore them and die or I try chasing them off myself, being inefficient at the task and wasting my potential and eventually my life.

4) Often I want to round that corner to cover my smaller comrades, but can't because of &quot;traffic jams&quot; of my team while smaller machines get wasted by the enemy one by one.

5) When charging in an assault the own team constantly runs right into my line of fire. So I either don't fire of move around them, which is somewhat annoying.

While I can see the expectations one might have regarding the role and courage of an assault, I do have expectations for my teammates, too. And they are also rarely met.

So ... the truth is a three edged sword. Their side, my side, and the truth

So true. This sums up for assault pilots.

[Sephlock]

GODzillaGSPB, on 15 August 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

Yes, you will survive back in your trenchses, but once the frontline mediums and heavies are dealt with, you'll die surrounded and alone.

Obviously you need to try harder so that doesn't happen .