110 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

DegeneratePervert, on 15 August 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Atlas is an utter waste if used as an LRM platform... Catapults, Awesomes, and Stalkers do it better. Stick to brawling.

As a former Missile boat Atlas I will disagree with you a little. Cats, Awesomes & Stalkers do Missiles better, But an Atlas is Not a waste as a Missile boat. It holds it's own respectably.

[GingerBang]

19cico96, on 15 August 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Lrms are how they suppose to be, PGI did great job with lrms play brawler, sniper try something different

so in other words don't try LRM's because they are bad, and PGI wanted them to be bad?

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

As a former Missile boat Atlas I will disagree with you a little. Cats, Awesomes & Stalkers do Missiles better, But an Atlas is Not a waste as a Missile boat. It holds it's own respectably.

Nothing like a full rack of missiles and an ER_Large laser in each hand. Love my LRM-Atlas.

[Taemien]

mrbounce, on 15 August 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

I just love the game man. I was never a TT guy (I was way too young), I just came in to MW4/Mercs and MC2 and fell in love. Having played shooters, RPGs and strategy games for well more than a decade, you get an affinity for what works in video games.

I'd almost join a unit but I'm not sure if I can continue to play this game so much when it seems like the progress is haltingly slow.

I was agreeing with you. I was just being slightly cynical about it. You were not the target of the rant

[Joseph Mallan]

Taemien, on 15 August 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

I was agreeing with you. I was just being slightly cynical about it. You were not the target of the rant

Move along. Move along.

[Corwin Vickers]

I don't want missiles to be nearly as guided. I don't think the TT meant them to be so guided.

I'd rather they were an arc flying, but fast moving, ballistic type weapon instead of the homing pigeons that are even better at indirect fire than they were before.

Then people could stop with the "you don't even have to aim" arguments.

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[Johnny Reb]

Kludger, on 15 August 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Combining LRMs with 2xERPPC seems to work well for me on my C1, gives you an alternate long range and close range weapon plus PPC hit disrupts ECM momentarily long enough to get a quick lock without TAG.

Works great on my maligned support Atlas DDC that can brawl when needed!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...703b96f2be52c32

[I am]

Johnny Reb, on 15 August 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

How many ppl asked for a buff? One maybe two?

Easy there storm trooper, just making a light jest. Honestly though, what do you think the underlining agenda of this thread is? Pretty obvious.

[SirSlaughter]

LRMs are well balanced right now

[Lyoto Machida]

I'm curious as to what chassis are bugged with the middle tube bug people have mentioned. I drive an AWS-8R mainly (which doesn't seem to be affected).

Marmon Rzohr, on 15 August 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

You don't need a dedicated spotter/wingman that bad. Pugging works ok. You just need to get used to the tempo.

Advice I picked up from people smarter than me and from my own experience:
- Matches usually boil down to two phases: sniping phase and brawling chaos
- Don't waste ammo in the sniping phase. Chainfire missiles and pop a shot at each mech you can lock to suppress (unless you get a a good opprotunity)
- Watch what types of mech are being targeted and by who. Assault mechs are you best targets, lights you can freely ignore you do too little damage while they're running. Also if a frendly light just ran through the enemy, he probably wont hold lock for long on any targets, friendlies engaged in short range combat will almost always keep a stable lock.
- Watch the targets armor. If they are taking constant damage that usually means a solid lock and at least two good salvoes.
- You shine in the midgame and when brawls break out.
- Your job is to add damage to as many fights as you can. Whenever there's a duel, it's your job to make it an unfair one. Wherever there's a brawl, or an enemy mech caught alone, you pump in the damage.
- Stay with you team's assault mechs. It makes you a hard target for marauding lights and mediums who will usually need to suicide into your team if they want to get to you. It also means that you've just added 30+ LRMs to the arsenal of an already scary Atlas on your team. Finally if you stay near assaults you will usually be ignored as there are higher priority targets - which gives you the freedom to send out the pain !

Hope this helps a bit.
Cheers mechwarriors !

This guy knows what's up...don't give away all the secrets!

[Kitane]

I am, on 15 August 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

What all the people crying for LRM buffs have in common is that they..

...

Watching people rage as they are under constant rain of LRMs is my guilty pleasure. Those sweet shouts of "You skill-less scrubs, LRMs are weapons without honor!" as their broken mechs tumble to the ground. Totally worth it.

It's an educational tool, getting CT-cored by LURMs is almost always your own damn fault.

[Master Q]

[color=#CCCCCC]
Lyoto Machida, on 16 August 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:[/color]
[color=#959595]
This guy knows what's up...don't give away all the secrets![/color]

[color=#959595]Just for a lark, I tried some of the "advice" from some of the people in this thread earlier and rebuilt two Atlases several times. TAG, PPC, etc.[/color]

[color=#959595]I've determined that it was nonsense.[/color]

[color=#959595]PPC? Sure, if you can hit the one guy who is running ECM for their group, it shuts his ECM down. But now you have a pack of 6 of them. 3-4 are carrying ECM huddled together. So if you shut one down, his buddies have him covered.[/color]

[color=#959595]TAG laser? Tried those out too. Was very successful in getting a lock on ECM-shielded guys. And while waiting for the TAG to lock on at 500m, get torn to shreds by the 2ERPPC+Gauss boats.[/color]

[color=#959595]Target Decay module. Great idea with one major flaw - it doesn't work through ECM. They break LOS and ECM covers them, you're done. TAG doesn't even help with this. Hell, at one point someone SHUT DOWN in front of me at the 400m range, breaking off my lock in the middle of acquisition.[/color][color=#959595] What kind of completely brain-dead moron decision-making process caused you to make shutting down break missile lock, Devs???[/color]

[color=#959595]"Get In Close." I tested and confirmed: LRM minimum arming distance is 180m. Fired any closer, no damage. Required distance to lock on to an opponent under ECM protection (from friendly or self): 200m. In other words, you have to keep them inside a 20m "ring" of 180-200m distance in order to maintain lock AND manage to fire for any damage. This is not gameplay balance, this is a JOKE.[/color]

[color=#959595]No other weapon in the game is made as useless as LRMs right now. No other weapon has to face ALL of the following drawbacks:[/color]

• Lock time before it can even be fired.
  
• Time required to HOLD the lock to ensure missiles reach target.
  
• Requirement to expose self to enemy fire for the entire length of time the missiles are in flight (turn away, lose lock).
  
• Warning light that tells the enemy they are being targeted.
  
• Target locking system that can be interrupted any of a dozen ways, including by the enemy SHUTTING DOWN (which ought to make them easier to target) due to overheating.
  
• Existence of a built-in counterweapon every mech can cheaply equip (AMS) that reduces or eliminates the damage from the weapon.
  
• Existence of an "on/off" switch of equipment that tells enemy opponents "nyah nyah, you can't hit me, you can't even pull the trigger to fire at me."

Edited by Niko Snow, 16 August 2013 - 10:24 AM.
Removed Off-Topic

[Kitane]

Tag handles ECM just fine, the problem here is that fighting in line of sight with missiles requires you to be a switf and sneaky git, you are at disadvantage against direct fire weapons by design. And Atlases are not exactly known neither for swiftness nor sneakiness.

Complaining about Target Decay not working against ECM.. you can't have everything. The module is already very strong, almost OP when mounted on a LRM boat.

You are right that LRMs have so many counters it's ridiculous. Some of them were conjured by PGI out of thin air. I feel your pain. The truth about LRMS is that the easiest to use weapon also happens to be one of the hardest weapons to use well. Think of it as a challenge. And get out of Fatlas, assault LRM boats are brute force simpletons that will never teach you correct habits.

[The6047]

Master Q, on 15 August 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

A moderate portion of LRMs (two 15-launchers, standard build for an RS) is not "boating." But with ECM in the game the way it is, those LRMs become wasted tonnage.

I agree. I was not speaking of a particular variant, just boating in general. I also agree that missles are a waste of tonnage unless you boat. Why I dont like em.

[Edson Drake]

People that say LRMS are weapons that require no skill, or easy mode, can't aim, etc, clearly never played with one.

It needs plenty of procedures just to fire those missiles, if you don't want to be wasting ammo all the time.

They need to be specific mechs, anything else that just can carry missiles doesn't cut, it needs to boat. Needs Artemis, boat the LRMS in matching pattern, a module, tag, loads of ammo, and, yeah... skill. It's pretty hard to hold those locks, they don't just hold themselves y'know.

They may seem easy to the opposing end because if there's teamplay involved, they're surely deadly, but, isn't that the same about every loadout?

I don't play my 3H often, but when I do, I sure enjoy the cries of no-skill of those who die at my LRMS, I have no regrets, I know how hard it was to get those locks.

[Kludger]

Master Q the key fail point of your LRM "retest" is you were in a slow FAtlas.

Atlas doesn't move fast enough to stay in the sweet spot of 400m range near team mates who can help you with lights, and Atlas also is a huge target which attracts lots of fire due to it's usual deadly capabilities.

For LRM success you should be in something a bit faster and less threatening looking which many opponents will ignore for a while (Catapult C1 is my favorite).

LRMing works fine currently for many of us, but only if you are willing to put in the time to adapt your play style and builds to make it so.

[RamsoPanzer]

I have 2 atlas, 1 with ECM and the other without it. Its simple, with the second, LRMs are always on me, with the first i dont see LRMs around me, and when i see someone tagging me, he eats 2 large lasers plus 2 UACs constantly fired on him, and he flies away.

The difference is:

1 - with EMC, just for 1 ton, i feel safe. I dont even carry the anti-missile system, i dont need it in 95% of the matches.

2 - without ECM... It dosent matter i bring an umbrella... i get wet.

Obviously, with a good TAG-pointer light mech , the LRMs get dangerous, but until now, I only see spiders as a threat. I really think we will only see the real effectiveness of LRMs when the CW comes and prepared builds are really shown in battle. And my opinion is that there are many and good counter measures for LRMs. A prepared LRM build can be dangerous, but against an anti-LRM build, they have nothing to do.

Edited by RamsoPanzer, 16 August 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Group AMS that fires at any missiles whizzing past is 10x worse of a problem than ECM ever will be, and the main reason that groups of under 25 - 30 missiles stance no chance of inflicting reasonable damage, even if you get lock.

Kludger, on 16 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

LRMing works fine currently for many of us, but only if you are willing to put in the time to adapt your play style and builds to make it so.

Competitive players really don't use LRMs even now. While they are incredibly damaging if the enemy doesn't know how to deal with them (making them, like Ultras, an alright PUG'ing weapon) they will tear them up - if the enemy is on the same page, they will quickly be rendered moot and obliterated.

LRMs, more than any other weapon, is in this unfortunate divide where it's terrible for one skill level and alright for another.

[Kitane]

Victor Morson, on 16 August 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Group AMS that fires at any missiles whizzing past is 10x worse of a problem than ECM ever will be, and the main reason that groups of under 25 - 30 missiles stance no chance of inflicting reasonable damage, even if you get lock.



Competitive players really don't use LRMs even now. While they are incredibly damaging if the enemy doesn't know how to deal with them (making them, like Ultras, an alright PUG'ing weapon) they will tear them up - if the enemy is on the same page, they will quickly be rendered moot and obliterated.

LRMs, more than any other weapon, is in this unfortunate divide where it's terrible for one skill level and alright for another.

Pugging with a LRM mech is a nice way to have fun while keeping your ELO from increasing too much. Higher ELO brackets and the snooze-inducing sniper fest are hardly something worth to aim for...

[Corvus Antaka]

LRMS are a bit of a waste right now because ton for ton they just dont dish the damage and the PPC remains too effective vs all the other guns.

[KAT Ayanami]

LeShadow, on 15 August 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Yup, don't use LRM at long range. They're mid range weapons. I usually try to get reasonably close, hit 'em with my backup lasers (and TAG, if i have it). By the time the lasers are done, I have lock and send a volley of LRM after 'em. With target retention, there's enough time to guide one or two salvos in, even at mid range, even if the target takes cover immediately. Don't engage snipers at sniping range.

Also, as has been said before, don't put LRM into an Atlas, except maybe as backup weapons.

Its funny when people say "Do not put LRMs on an Atlas" When for example the DC one only has 2 usable energy points and the 2 ballistic are on the same torso.
Oh, and then people do not want those 2 energy to be PPCs and the ballistic a Gauss....