44 replies to this topic

[Dailey]

Please make the tag laser invisible so that when a scout tags an enemy, they simply cant just follow the laser line back and start sniping.

[Ransack]

No, just no.

[Dimento Graven]

Dailey, on 15 August 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Please make the tag laser invisible so that when a scout tags an enemy, they simply cant just follow the laser line back and start sniping.

It's impossible to make 'invisible' because it's a LASER, the only reason 'mechs can see it is because every 'mech frequency shifts that spectrum to make it visible. You could shift the spectrum but then all the 'mech techs would just shift the spectrum of the view filters to see it again.

Nah, this is a non-starter, sorry dude.

[Tskeet]

Okay so that ^^ made no sense at all

A LASER by definition emits a coherent beam of light in one specific direction. It is not visible because the photons travel in specifically the direction it is aimed at. The only way an observer who is not on-axis (i.e. the target) can view it is if something partially obstructs the laser such as smoke, and then the smoke particles will reflect the laser beam tangentially to the axis of fire, allowing us to see it.

[Dimento Graven]

mrbounce, on 15 August 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Okay so that ^^ made no sense at all

A LASER by definition emits a coherent beam of light in one specific direction. It is not visible because the photons travel in specifically the direction it is aimed at. The only way an observer who is not on-axis (i.e. the target) can view it is if something partially obstructs the laser such as smoke, and then the smoke particles will reflect the laser beam tangentially to the axis of fire, allowing us to see it.

Yes, and we call that partial obstruction the 'atmosphere' and if properly filtered makes a laser beam visible.

[Thanatos676]

mrbounce, on 15 August 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Okay so that ^^ made no sense at all

A LASER by definition emits a coherent beam of light in one specific direction. It is not visible because the photons travel in specifically the direction it is aimed at. The only way an observer who is not on-axis (i.e. the target) can view it is if something partially obstructs the laser such as smoke, and then the smoke particles will reflect the laser beam tangentially to the axis of fire, allowing us to see it.

Agreed.

[kuangmk11]

I'm not really against or for this. It could be an interesting change, maybe you can only see the beam in infrared.

[Tskeet]

Dimento Graven, on 15 August 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yes, and we call that partial obstruction the 'atmosphere' and if properly filtered makes a laser beam visible.

Go on... I'm not a physicist but the typical view in the game doesn't seem to be so enhanced as to detect such fine radiosity. I think the pilot's head would explode, neuro-helmet or not?

[Dimento Graven]

mrbounce, on 15 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Go on... I'm not a physicist but the typical view in the game doesn't seem to be so enhanced as to detect such fine radiosity. I think the pilot's head would explode, neuro-helmet or not?

How do you think we're seeing the Small, Medium, and Large laser beams now?

[DegeneratePervert]

No. When I'm getting tagged, I need to be able to figure out where the TAG is coming from.

[xCico]

TAG is fine, sometimes I dont notice when someone "Tagging" me

[Spheroid]

Several points here. First a visible laser helps me the user of the TAG aim. Secondly as a scout you can spot from the rear or flanks, in which case your beam is unlikely to be seen. Finally I have no sympathy for the number one user of TAG which is Stalker LRM boats. If that helps them receive PPC to face quickly all the better.

Edited by Spheroid, 15 August 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[tuffy963]

Just as a side point... Modern laser targeting systems are almost impossible to detect with the human eye. You can only see the beam if you are the target, or something refracts the beam (like fog).

[Dimento Graven]

Spheroid, on 15 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

...
Finally I have no sympathy for the number one user of TAG which is Stalker LRM boats. If that helps them receive PPC to face quickly all the better.

That made me laugh...

tuffy963, on 15 August 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Just as a side point... Modern laser targeting systems are almost impossible to detect with the human eye. You can only see the beam if you are the target, or something refracts the beam (like fog).

Keep in mind that the atmosphere does refract the beam, and a filter of the appropriate frequency can see that path. That's how the NSA can determine if someone is trying to optically bug a window pane.

I know this because... Well, I've said too much already...

[Hexenhammer]

maybe a module that makes tag invisibile? 6mill

[Ransack]

Using the real life definition for lasers, we should see nothing in battle save ballistics and missiles. Each type of LASER has it's own color too. I guess there are some weird atmospherics going on. Real Science aside, an invisible TAG equipped on something like an ECM Spider, would make those funky LRMS so OP it's not even funny.

[Roland]

Dimento Graven, on 15 August 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

It's impossible to make 'invisible' because it's a LASER, the only reason 'mechs can see it is because every 'mech frequency shifts that spectrum to make it visible. You could shift the spectrum but then all the 'mech techs would just shift the spectrum of the view filters to see it again.

Nah, this is a non-starter, sorry dude.

You think that laser target designators use visible wavelength lasers?

Being a laser does not mean that it's visible.

While you could theoretically use a special vision mode to see that wavelength, it wouldn't just magically show the laser while still showing everything else normally.

For instance, if you were firing an infrared laser, you'd need to go into what is effectively the thermal view mode to see it.

[Dimento Graven]

Roland, on 15 August 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

You think that laser target designators use visible wavelength lasers?

Being a laser does not mean that it's visible.

While you could theoretically use a special vision mode to see that wavelength, it wouldn't just magically show the laser while still showing everything else normally.

For instance, if you were firing an infrared laser, you'd need to go into what is effectively the thermal view mode to see it.

Meh, details... You want PGI to quibble over 'em or what?

[Roland]

Dimento Graven, on 15 August 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Meh, details... You want PGI to quibble over 'em or what?

The reality is that real world physics doesn't matter in a video game.

But you were actually going beyond trying to use real world physics to justify poor gameplay balance, and had moved into the realm of using incorrect real world physics to justify poor gameplay balance.

[Tskeet]

Dimento Graven, on 15 August 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

How do you think we're seeing the Small, Medium, and Large laser beams now?

The larger a laser beam, the increased amount of divergent photons; also, the increased power, the increased level of ionisation around the "beam" itself.

Look, I know what you're saying. We're all having a laugh here. What the NSA can or cannot do in your opinion (or experience, which you should DEFINITELY keep to yourself lest you run aground) is quite irrelevant.

I struggle to plausibly present a vision system that presents 100% "normal" vision and simultaneously singles out, not only certain wavelengths, but their refracted properties from a large number of potential reflectors.