43 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

General Taskeen, on 15 August 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Stockish Mechs in previous Mech games weren't that bad, they were either good or average, but they were not trash to use as they are in MWO.

One of the main reasons stockish Mechs in MWO can't be on average or good footing with the "exceptional" maxed Mechs also has to do with balance itself, everything from heat sink design to jumpjets and the elephant in the room->ECM->this fantasy tool alone absolutely ruins the concept of stock designs that use just a handful of lasers and several tons worth of LRMs or even Streaks.

Anyways, I will definitely play such a mode if PGI makes it, either historical/no customization mode or some sort of 'limited/partial' customization mode. Whateva's cleva.

The Spider, Jager, Cicada, Dragon & Quickdraw were deemed worthless PoS around my gaming circles.

[Khobai]

Quote

The Spider, Jager, Cicada, Dragon & Quickdraw were deemed worthless PoS around my gaming circles.

Pretty much and nobody would use them in a stockmech only mode unless they were forced to which is why a stock mech only mode would have to force random mechs on people... its the only way to get every stock mech used regularly.

[Zylo]

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Pretty much and nobody would use them in a stockmech only mode unless they were forced to which is why a stock mech only mode would have to force random mechs on people... its the only way to get every stock mech used regularly.

Players would just quit match if they got stuck with a junk mech and jump into another match though.

[Sybreed]

yes on stock mechs mode... but PGI needs to fix their weapons/heat features first

[3Xtr3m3]

Community Warfare.
House Vs. House.
Community and Devs agree what is House specific Designs/Variations.
Higher you get in House (Rank and LP), Then you are allowed to use better varients or allow slight modification.
(Exs. More ammo or more Heat Sinks. Not more than say 10% of mech weight,
Better Variant of Specific Equipment A slightly different variant of a specific weapon, like a 3 shot AC/20 is standard, But Steiner prefers 1 shot AC/20.
House specific Modules.Say Liao allows better electronics earlier
Just a short list there)


Man, imagine the discussions on the forums over those details. whole threads dedicated to what would be the difference between a generic or stock Dragon versus the House Kurita Stock Variant.


Just reread, too much?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Redwo1f, on 15 August 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

...I am not saying "stock" as in current renditions. I agree, the "stock" versions need to be improved. More concerned with a "set" and viable, but unalterable load-out for each. Yes, PGI really has to work on improved "stock".

Would be neat if they turned out Champion mechs for each mech (maybe not each variant), and all you do is battle Unaltered Champion Mechs. Since they're a lot better than stock mechs, and they already exist in the game as upgraded and decked out mechs.

Would be fun indeed

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 15 August 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well thats the funny part. The Dragon is a House Kurita Specific Mech, So depending on which DCMS unit you were in may determine which Dragon you'd likely have.

[General Taskeen]

One Medic Army, on 15 August 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

No problem with that, but you're going to have to understand that stock mode will probably have even less variety than the current "anything flies" mode, simply because so many of the stock mechs are freaking terrible.

Then why doesn't PGI fix heat sinks? Those are freakin' terrible, not the stock loadouts.

[Gaan Cathal]

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Its all relative. Stock mechs only suck against fully customized mechs. But stock mechs are perfectly capable against other stock mechs.

This is just...wrong. There's a handful of decent stock fits that would be almost the only things you'd see because they'd utterly beast the other inferno-waiting-to-happen builds. Almost anything with stock DHS, for example.

[One Medic Army]

General Taskeen, on 29 September 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Then why doesn't PGI fix heat sinks? Those are freakin' terrible, not the stock loadouts.

Did you ever play TT?
There is plenty of variety from sucktacular to awesome even within stock builds, not even mentioning that we have both L1 tech and L2 tech stock builds in MWO.

Compare the stock BJ-1 to the stock BJ-3 for example.

[Voidsinger]

Totally agree with the sentiments. Hoiwever...

The entire way the rules have been done for balance is done for the customised builds. This means more than a few stock builds have been severely broken. Unless Historical had it's own balance, mechs will not play as we remember them.

I do believe you are correct in that the BT heart has gone out of MWO. Looking at the medium situation: The current champion Centurion has no arm weapons. At the launch, they talked about the BAM Blackjack, with an AC/20. Centurions were buit on rounded armamnets, and the Blackjack was a Counterinsurgency mech as designed. No spirit there.

[General Taskeen]

One Medic Army, on 30 September 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Compare the stock BJ-1 to the stock BJ-3 for example.

Hmm, let's take a look at the guerilla force Blackjack, sitting in the shadows somewhere.

BJ-1 - Hmm, looks heat efficient enough to me! 11 SHS, alpha firing 4 ML each turn generates 12 Heat, that's 1 heat left over in the next turn, meaning they could fire less lasers or AC/2's and have no heat during the next turn. Or it could keep using its ML's alpha-firing for many turns, and raise its "heat level" by a wincy bit each time. Only Alpha-firing 2 AC/2's every turn plinks away at the enemy, long range, and remains heat neutral.

BJ-3 - Balanced around its heavy energy loadout! 10 DHS, alpha firing 2 PPC's every turn will remain heat neutral the next turn from its sniping position. Likewise firing its ML will keep it cool.

Basically all that equates to is minimalist load-outs that are effective with SHS and DHS based on their loadouts. Both have the same armor, speed, and number of jumpjets. Both fighting at extreme knife-range would likely see the BJ-1 winning, unless one accounts for luck of course. With the faster fire rates in-game (with every MW), and better programmed heat sinks, the Blackjack-3 would be raising its heat level to 66% every time with DHS (PPC's only), but dissipate relatively fast. The BJ-1 would be barely raisings its heat levels to 40% when firing, and dissipate rather quickly. Both would risk overheating if firing too soon while cooling down. The BJ-1 loadout in MWO, however, requires DHS to even function, not to mention that hot maps make SHS basically laughable to use period.

PGI should have never made heatsinks that raise thresholds with low dissipation rates, then stock builds could actually stand a chance with their minimalist load-outs.

Edited by General Taskeen, 30 September 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[rolly]

Hey all,

I'm all for this. It reminds me of another game I play *ahem* with Historical Battles and Full Realism that now has events that require only certain models to participate. Heck I'd shell out for that section of development to happen. It would give us old school fans a place to focus our energies and our dough on.

If the dev's want more financial capital, focus on giving the old school battletech fans a section to be purists and run stock variants in randoms and historical battles till we're blue in the face.

And yes, I would definitely run something like an stock Ostscout (or even a Mackie!) if I knew it was a key role for my team or I had the chance to earn my way to an Ostsol. I'd play a "sucky" heat unfriendly mech for the challenge and simply because I love playing Battletech.

[Timuroslav]

Some one doesn't Anticipate the Griffin being a **** victim

[One Medic Army]

General Taskeen, on 30 September 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Hmm, let's take a look at the guerilla force Blackjack, sitting in the shadows somewhere.

BJ-1 - Hmm, looks heat efficient enough to me! 11 SHS, alpha firing 4 ML each turn generates 12 Heat, that's 1 heat left over in the next turn, meaning they could fire less lasers or AC/2's and have no heat during the next turn. Or it could keep using its ML's alpha-firing for many turns, and raise its "heat level" by a wincy bit each time. Only Alpha-firing 2 AC/2's every turn plinks away at the enemy, long range, and remains heat neutral.

BJ-3 - Balanced around its heavy energy loadout! 10 DHS, alpha firing 2 PPC's every turn will remain heat neutral the next turn from its sniping position. Likewise firing its ML will keep it cool.

Basically all that equates to is minimalist load-outs that are effective with SHS and DHS based on their loadouts. Both have the same armor, speed, and number of jumpjets. Both fighting at extreme knife-range would likely see the BJ-1 winning, unless one accounts for luck of course. With the faster fire rates in-game (with every MW), and better programmed heat sinks, the Blackjack-3 would be raising its heat level to 66% every time with DHS (PPC's only), but dissipate relatively fast. The BJ-1 would be barely raisings its heat levels to 40% when firing, and dissipate rather quickly. Both would risk overheating if firing too soon while cooling down. The BJ-1 loadout in MWO, however, requires DHS to even function, not to mention that hot maps make SHS basically laughable to use period.

PGI should have never made heatsinks that raise thresholds with low dissipation rates, then stock builds could actually stand a chance with their minimalist load-outs.

My point was that in TT they're both equal within ML ranges, but outside ML ranges the BJ-3 vastly out-performs the BJ-1 due to comparing 2 AC/2s to 2 PPCs.
All stock mechs are not created equal, and a large number of stock designs are specifically designed with weak points (like the CT ammo on some Rifleman variants).

[TheForce]

Great post.

Stock mode would work with battle value that is based on what weapons/chassis are best in game (not btech battle value), but even without it the fans of the lore would arrange matches with a variety of mechs. I bet there would be more variety than u see in custom games.

I wish I could be reasonable like the OP, but this game is a travesty! They should change the name of it to "GenericRobotWarrior Online." It looks like MW, but it feels like robot jocks. Devs have no respect for the lore.

So disappointed

and how much effort is it to create a stock que and add code to all queues that loads a stock mech config (thats already in their database) instead of a player's custom config if the que i'm joining is stock?

make it premium only. us old timers have money to burn on MechWarrior, but i haven't played robot jocks for months now.

SO DISAPPOINTED!!! FOR SHAME DEVS!!

Edited by TheForce, 01 October 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Stardancer01]

Stock/Historical mode Tournaments,
with the exception of Solaris arena where anything goes.

Edited by Stardancer01, 02 October 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Here are some things I'd like to see brought into game:
1) Weight limits (inbound)
2) Hardpoint sizes (I've gone into this before).
3) R&R and real salvage. *I lost my ERPPC in that last battle, but I got a PPC in salvage. It'll have to do.*
4) Hardcore mode, see below

I love the mechlab and I love the customization but it does seem to have been allowed to run rampant. HP sizes (yes, the LL slot will fit a SL if you want, but the spot with a SL cannot fit a LL, etc) would curb boating and give lights with large loadouts some uniqueness (Panther).

Instead of a dull C-Bill bonus at the end of match, I'd like to see a list of gear I was awarded (salvage rights in the merc contract) and then to have those items found in my owned gear. Once CW is in effect, I'd like to see a limit to what can be purchased depending on where I am, making the gamble of salvage all that much more interesting. They also have different types of the same weapons inbound too. *Damn, I lost my Imperator AC, but I got a Pontiac in salvage, nice!*

There's just so much here that a hardcore {Noble MechWarrior} like myself pines for. Maybe this should be the true function of a hardcore mode. Make it a personal choice only, but not limit hardcore players to only with other hardcore players. Again, it's a personal choice. We'd choose to take the salvage gamble while others even on our own team prefer C-Bill awards.... This requires more thought, but here's the quick and dirty of my suggestions.

Really?? {Noble MechWarrior} replaces f.a.n.b.o.y? LOL.....

Edited by cdlord, 04 October 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[tucsonspeed6]

I can't vote in this poll because I don't agree with the OPs sentiments, although I do like the idea. A stock mode would be interesting, but I'm not a 40-something writing passionate posts on the Lucky Charms forums insisting that those suits at Big Cereal stole my childhood by adding new marshmallows, and they should divide their market by offering separate boxes with the original marshmallows.

PGI didn't make separate queues for 3pv and 1pv because they thought it would negatively affect waiting times. Stock mode is no different. Maybe they'll set up the option in private 12v12s, or in future tournaments. That's about all you can hope for unless this thing blows up to a WoW level player base. (And even that game only offers 2 game modes of PVE and PVP.)

[TygerLily]

The best way to do this mode would be:

1) Put in a button next to the "Strip Modules" and "Strip Equipment" that says "Revert To Stock". Mechlab disabled.

alternatively

Make a queue that reverts any Mech you launch in to it's stock loadout but reverts back to your customizations if you play outside that queue.

2) Halve all armor values.

3) To assist in the community run stock events, we could really use a button that auto-balances teams in private matches.