17 replies to this topic

[Praehotec8]

A big part of the problem with alpha strikes is that it's so easy to whip the crosshair wherever you want almost instantly using the mouse, and put the damage exactly where you want it with little effort. This is in direct contrast to the joystick, which has a much slower and less precise aim.

Therefore, I propose that either everyone be restricted to joystick use only or that the mouse swing speed is drastically reduced. Good players would still be able to put damage where they like, but the ability to rapidly fire and roll is reduced. You have to choose when to fire, and when to roll much more carefully.

I say this partly in jest, as I know it will never happen, but as a player who uses a joystick exclusively these days, I can see the difference that it makes. Sure, I can roughly put damage where I want, but my spread is much greater and my aiming speed is markedly reduced compared to if I were using a mouse. Thoughts (and not just don't use a joystick...I do just fine with it, and so can/do others)?

[GingerBang]

Yeah, it's one HUGE problem with a mouse. I think this problem would be GREATLY reduced if while walking, your crosshair danced around a lot, and the movement wasn't nearly as smooth. I mean, to even fire a Gauss rifle a mech has to come to a near complete stop in BT anyways.


Making people slow down and commit to their shots would be a great point of balance.

Edited by GingerBang, 15 August 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

GingerBang, on 15 August 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yeah, it's one HUGE problem with a mouse. I think this problem would be GREATLY reduced if while walking, your crosshair danced around a lot, and the movement wasn't nearly as smooth. I mean, to even fire a Gauss rifle a mech has to come to a near complete stop in BT anyways.


Making people slow down and commit to their shots would be a great point of balance.

Modify this a bit. With Cross hairs swaying a bit while walking and dancing while running.

[GingerBang]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Modify this a bit. With Cross hairs swaying a bit while walking and dancing while running.

ding ding ding. we have a winner.

Edited by GingerBang, 15 August 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

GingerBang, on 15 August 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

ding ding ding. we have a winner.

The problem you'll run into is that those with Skillz won't like having to work a little harder or he kills.

[GingerBang]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

The problem you'll run into is that those with Skillz won't like having to work a little harder or he kills.

Yeah, i think one of the biggest problems right now is all the people who think they are great, won't like actually having to do work. I hate hearing my friends who pilot nothing but PPC/Gauss boats ***** about they are getting rid of the ability to "use skill."

[Monky]

the problem with this is most high alpha pinpointing is done while descending from jumpjets or popping up from cover and then falling back, few assaults are running wild in the open slamming everyone with pinpoint strikes.

In other words, it would only affect mechs currently moving at max speed, hill humpers/poptarts would be unaffected. Only a partial fix.

[akpavker]

Praehotec8, on 15 August 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

A big part of the problem with alpha strikes is that it's so easy to whip the crosshair wherever you want almost instantly using the mouse, and put the damage exactly where you want it with little effort. This is in direct contrast to the joystick, which has a much slower and less precise aim.

Therefore, I propose that either everyone be restricted to joystick use only or that the mouse swing speed is drastically reduced. Good players would still be able to put damage where they like, but the ability to rapidly fire and roll is reduced. You have to choose when to fire, and when to roll much more carefully.

I say this partly in jest, as I know it will never happen, but as a player who uses a joystick exclusively these days, I can see the difference that it makes. Sure, I can roughly put damage where I want, but my spread is much greater and my aiming speed is markedly reduced compared to if I were using a mouse. Thoughts (and not just don't use a joystick...I do just fine with it, and so can/do others)?

what a terible idea....
i have never owned a joystick and dont intend to ever own 1. i would quit if it came down to having to buy a joy stick to play this game and id say thousands of others would aswell. if you want to use joysticks or controllers go play playstation or x-box and stop proposing stupid ideas.

[Lightfoot]

The one thing I notice is the Mechs all have much more character with a Joystick. Some aim and converge reticles better than others, but with a Mouse it's always just a zippy 1 to 1 movement ratio with the arm reticle snapping instantly into allignment or extending 1 to 1. I can't even tell if the torso-twist speed is different on different mechs with a mouse, actually. It definately is with a joystick.

They should add mech characteristics to Mouse control really. That's probably about it though.

Edited by Lightfoot, 15 August 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[Lightfoot]

akpavker, on 15 August 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

what a terible idea....
i have never owned a joystick and dont intend to ever own 1. i would quit if it came down to having to buy a joy stick to play this game and id say thousands of others would aswell. if you want to use joysticks or controllers go play playstation or x-box and stop proposing stupid ideas.

That's not what he is proposing. He is saying they should add Mech characteristics to Mouse control similar to what happens with different mechs and a Joystick. With a Joystick the torso/arm movement is much different for each mech with Assault mechs being fairly sluggish, mediums being fairly fast. Players are screaming for less convergence and mouse control needs mech characteristics. Seems like you could bring two enhancements with one fix.

My bet is players don't want a convergence fix this much.

Edited by Lightfoot, 15 August 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Modify this a bit. With Cross hairs swaying a bit while walking and dancing while running.

They already do this if you use a joystick. Uneven ground, alot of de-convergence. Level gound, not so much de-convergence. On uneven ground with a joystick you really do have to stop to shoot.

[Praehotec8]

Lightfoot, on 15 August 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

That's not what he is proposing. He is saying they should add Mech characteristics to Mouse control similar to what happens with different mechs and a Joystick. With a Joystick the torso/arm movement is much different for each mech with Assault mechs being fairly sluggish, mediums being fairly fast. Players are screaming for less convergence and mouse control needs mech characteristics. Seems like you could bring two enhancements with one fix.

My bet is players don't want a convergence fix this much.

Exactly this. The game plays much differently when using a joystick. If the mouse behaved more like joysticks do I think you'd see many scenarios in this game play out differently. It might not be a perfect fix, but it would help a lot.

[Taemien]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Modify this a bit. With Cross hairs swaying a bit while walking and dancing while running.

I suggested this a couple of months ago. It made better sense than convergence changes and easier to code.

Jumps around slightly when walking, a bit more when running (66%+ throttle) and a lot more when jumping (like now). The distance the reticle moves increases with heat level.

Totally doable without any reengineering, no crazy convergence shtuff, and shots still go where the reticle is so we have complete control over where the shots are, just gets challenging to get the reticle where we want it. Simulates the lore by having us fight with the reticle.

[JingleHell]

So the solution to pinpoint convergence is to... make sure that people don't have to lead their shots? Am I the only one who sees how this is ******* crazy? When it applies to everybody, the only people it screws are faster mechs with less armor and/or XL engines, who really don't want to stop to line up shots.

With this in effect, the more hits you can survive (armor frequently being correlated with ability to boat pinpoint damage weapons), the less you care about this "nerf" despite being in the mechs that carry the most Gauss/PPC's... In other words, since shooting fish is bad for the fish, stick em in a barrel!

[Joseph Mallan]

The solution to pin point Alpha shots is to make it harder to achieve. So CoF(for Alpha), movement shake, and other stuff.

[MrZakalwe]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Modify this a bit. With Cross hairs swaying a bit while walking and dancing while running.

Did you hear that cry? That was the cry of despair from a light mech as it is bent over a table by this change.

What happens next would not be gentle

[Stomp]

GingerBang, on 15 August 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yeah, it's one HUGE problem with a mouse. I think this problem would be GREATLY reduced if while walking, your crosshair danced around a lot, and the movement wasn't nearly as smooth. I mean, to even fire a Gauss rifle a mech has to come to a near complete stop in BT anyways.


Making people slow down and commit to their shots would be a great point of balance.

Oooor it'll just start a camping fest where nobody leaves their base and it's TurretWarrior Online. See? Cons to everything.

[Mackman]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

The problem you'll run into is that those with Skillz won't like having to work a little harder or he kills.

No, the problem is that people like you enjoy oversimplifying things and lauding solutions that would only make things worse, all while ridiculing a significant portion of the playerbase.

For instance, a "dancing/swaying reticule" would do one thing, and one thing only: Make lasers absolutely balls-out terrible for every build except the slowest of the slow assault mechs, because getting damage on one or two components simply won't be possible if you're moving.

Ballistics, meanwhile, will be largely unaffected, especially the large ones with big CD's. No matter when you fire, all that damage will go to one place, and someone who's good will be able to consistently time their shots to the sway of the reticule.

So if you want to just nerf the crap out of lasers, fine, be my guest and implement a swaying reticule like that.