46 replies to this topic

[soapyfrog]

What I have learned from these forums in the past two weeks is that many, many people can't do basic arithmetic, and moreover do not understand the free to play model. The only way to make money on free to play is to sell convenience; faster resource game, equipment for money etc. Moreover there is already a well established standard that MWO follows pretty closely, right down to the specific pricing of in game currency and what you can buy with it.

Lastly I'd say if you think this game is grindy and you are bored of the fundamental gameplay: guess what, you do not like this game and you should go find a game you DO like. This game has basically no grind for people who actually enjoy it.

[Lostdragon]

soapyfrog, on 16 August 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

What I have learned from these forums in the past two weeks is that many, many people can't do basic arithmetic, and moreover do not understand the free to play model. The only way to make money on free to play is to sell convenience; faster resource game, equipment for money etc. Moreover there is already a well established standard that MWO follows pretty closely, right down to the specific pricing of in game currency and what you can buy with it.

Lastly I'd say if you think this game is grindy and you are bored of the fundamental gameplay: guess what, you do not like this game and you should go find a game you DO like. This game has basically no grind for people who actually enjoy it.

Or maybe if the game was finished people would not be bored of the grind. CW is supposed to be the part of the game that keeps people coming back. Without it there is no end game. The only thing to do is grind Cbills to get new mechs.

I played pretty heavily from March until July, but now that I have most of the current mechs I am interested in I don't feel like I am accomplishing anything when I play so there is no incentive to play 2-3 hours a day.

We are one month from launch and I am pretty sure CW in any form close to how it was originally pitched is still a year away. I would gladly pay $15 per month and might even drop $80 on PP if I felt like I was getting my money's worth but right now I don't see that being the case until CW is fully implemented and balance is in a better place.

Please bear in mind that I desperately want MWO to succeed and be a great game. I want my friends to want to play also, but right now the game is nothing but playing two tired modes over and over to save up to buy a new mech or module. The game will not be able to survive indefinitely in its current state because there is very little to actually do and nothing that really matters.

[orcrist86]

No game survives indefinitely. I paid for my 80 buck package in 3 installments. I have a kid, and a stay at home wife. Dollars are short, but I get a small fun budget every month.

[3rdworld]

The real question everyone is forgetting:

How many of those mechs will be too big to be of use?

My personal guess is Tbolt & Battlemaster are going to be too large. Shadow Hawk, will be slightly larger than the TBT, but not unplayable.

[soapyfrog]

Lostdragon, on 16 August 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Please bear in mind that I desperately want MWO to succeed and be a great game. I want my friends to want to play also, but right now the game is nothing but playing two tired modes over and over to save up to buy a new mech or module. The game will not be able to survive indefinitely in its current state because there is very little to actually do and nothing that really matters.

Look man, just go play another game you find more fun, come back when you think MWO is finished to your taste. Development is slow, that's been quite apparent. But the game is free. It costs you nothing to step back and come back later, even to the extent you can poke your head in every other month to see whats new. Costs you not one single thing.

For myself and I think probably many others that "two tired modes" is a lot of fun. I have bought everything I need in this game and have mastered every single chassis, I play now purely for the fun of it and I am still putting in 20 hours a week at least.

Not everyone will be like me, I recognize that. But we'll keep the lights on for you.

[Lostdragon]

soapyfrog, on 16 August 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Look man, just go play another game you find more fun, come back when you think MWO is finished to your taste. Development is slow, that's been quite apparent. But the game is free. It costs you nothing to step back and come back later, even to the extent you can poke your head in every other month to see whats new. Costs you not one single thing.

For myself and I think probably many others that "two tired modes" is a lot of fun. I have bought everything I need in this game and have mastered every single chassis, I play now purely for the fun of it and I am still putting in 20 hours a week at least.

Not everyone will be like me, I recognize that. But we'll keep the lights on for you.

I haven't been spending my time on MWO much lately, maybe 3 times a week for an hour. I still like the game and I enjoy sitting down and doing a few matches, but I doubt I'll do much serious playing until the game is further along. I do still play some and read the patch notes and post on the forums because I am still very passionate about the game and I want it to be a game I play a lot again someday. I

To be honest though, I worry that the game is not going to be much different from now at launch and it will get reviewed poorly. That would probably really hurt the game and make it fail to keep enough people interested long term to survive. Hopefully PGI has something up their sleeve and I am wrong, but if they do they are sure waiting for the 11th hour to pull it out.

[Johnny Z]

GingerBang, on 16 August 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

In his defense, neither does PGI. This is the worst monetization model i've seen in years. They are trying to monetize off a grind fest, but all that means is your players who can't play often are forced to subsidize those who can. That alone is an unsustainable model, and REAL game studio with a REAL mathematician/analytic department can tell you that.

The effect is doubled by the fact it is premium TIME, not premium matches. They are selling a way around the grind to people who don't have time to grind. However, that means they don't have time to use the Premium Time they purchased as well, rendering it entirely useless. Who wants to pay for 24 hours of premium time a day, when they only play 1 hour a day? Amateur design, nuff said.

Not going to agree or disagree here, but what i will say is that their marketing team or person likely has nothing to do with development or anything at all really, they are just doing their job.

I am no salesman so i am not in their corner, but that is most likely what is up.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 August 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[GingerBang]

Johnny Z, on 16 August 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Not going to agree or disagree here, but what i will say is that their marketing team or person likely has nothing to do with development or anything at all really, they are just doing their job.

I am no salesman so i am not in their corner, but that is most likely what is up.

\

That's the problem with PGI, they keep adding designs that completely DESTROY previous ones. There appears to be an incredibly LACK of communication between departments. It is so amateur. These are issues that are 100% eliminated in a single lunch meeting. I know this from experience. A 12 pack of Corona Light solves these kind of design issues every time. You just have to be competent enough to get each department talking to each other.

[Belorion]

and now you get some paint colors too

[MonkeyCheese]

GingerBang, on 16 August 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

In his defense, neither does PGI.  This is the worst monetization model i've seen in years.  They are trying to monetize off a grind fest, but all that means is your players who can't play often are forced to subsidize those who can.  That alone is an unsustainable model, and REAL game studio with a REAL mathematician/analytic department can tell you that.  

The effect is doubled by the fact it is premium TIME, not premium matches.  They are selling a way around the grind to people who don't have time to grind.  However, that means they don't have time to use the Premium Time they purchased as well, rendering it entirely useless.  Who wants to pay for 24 hours of premium time a day, when they only play 1 hour a day?  Amateur design, nuff said.

This grind most people complain about is mostly by choice after the first mech chassis.
For example as a new player I want a mastered fast aws9m thats my problem and I have to grind up 2 of the slower 8x variants.
So I save up using the cadet bonus, buy my first 2 cheaper/slower 8 series aws mechs, and skillunlock/save then eventually I have a mastered 9m to play with once all modules and skills are unlocked. At that point I could just play the game for fun and never play another mech and watch the money grow.

Once you have a purchased 3 variants of one mech and have leveled at least one up to master, and have saved up the money to fill that one mastered mech with modules and have found the correct build and engine then technically you have reached endgame and can play that mech using its full potential.

And yes all this can be done with cbills and using 3 of the 4 original mechbays. Compared to other free to play online games this is a fairly quick grind to reach end game for a character/class.

If people want more mechs/engines/modules then dont come crying to pgi/forums about it, no one is forcing you to buy that extra mech bay or spend time grinding further mechs or playing that "really bad" variant everyone hates or waste stupid amounts of money on crazy builds and multiple engines. Once you have done it all for the first time or even 4 times for each weight/speed class then its all your fault as a player if you choose to punish yourself again.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 17 August 2013 - 03:23 AM.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

General Taskeen, on 16 August 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Consider this OP. I paid over 120$ for Legendary Founders, for only 4 Mechs and the Mechbays that go with them. For 80$, the most expensive Phoenix package, you get 12 total Mechs and Mechbays. That's quite a steal.

I wish I had enough money to buy Founder pack back in the time...Now I bought Overlord and Sarah Jenner almost immediately just bcuz they are one-time offers and I will get a lot of stuff for those money.

[Jestun]

While it in no way offers value for money in my eyes, the pricing is their choice.

I've spent more than that on add-ons before, hell I've pledged more than that for Star Citizen.

[Johnny Z]

Lostdragon, on 16 August 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

I haven't been spending my time on MWO much lately, maybe 3 times a week for an hour. I still like the game and I enjoy sitting down and doing a few matches, but I doubt I'll do much serious playing until the game is further along. I do still play some and read the patch notes and post on the forums because I am still very passionate about the game and I want it to be a game I play a lot again someday. I

To be honest though, I worry that the game is not going to be much different from now at launch and it will get reviewed poorly. That would probably really hurt the game and make it fail to keep enough people interested long term to survive. Hopefully PGI has something up their sleeve and I am wrong, but if they do they are sure waiting for the 11th hour to pull it out.

I hear ya. But two things to consider, the free trial/f2p means that it will be widely tried so any reviews will hopefully not discredit themselves by giving a false or biased review. Secondly it has been stated this is an "A" title, so we can expect to see that at some point. Hopefully sooner rather than later

[Alex Warden]

1 heromech light
1 heromech medium
1 heromech heavy
1 heromech assault

90 days premium time
2 additional mechs of each weightclass
12 free mechbays
4 permanent xp(loyality points) boosters
not to mention 3 exclusive colours, and ALOT of possible Cbills if you don´t want to keep all variants of all mechs.

did i forget something? well... i guess the 4 heromechs alone are more than 80$

Edited by Alex Warden, 19 August 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[tucsonspeed6]

Randalf Yorgen, on 16 August 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

the OP has posted 8 times, most likely someones alt account used for trolling only, you guys have been had.

Also, good job, not only have you just done PGI's advertising for them but you have also just refreshed on the forums for them all the Phoenix information. Yep, prety sure you were trolled and prety sure is was someone who works for PGI who did it. Good stuff.

So let me get this straight... PGI is so diabolical that they have covert agents posing as players saying negative things about the company so they can manipulate other people into saying good things in return.

Now me personally, I'd probably just skip the middle man and just use my spies to just spread positive propaganda, but maybe I'm not as evil as PGI. Maybe they're so evil that they planted both naysayers as well as well-wishers in the same thread to rant back and forth. Maybe we're all plants from the massive PGI machine and you're the only one who's real. What if they were everywhere, controlling everything. What's that standing behind you? Nothing there? I thought so. I wouldn't be there now because I just left. Didn't you buy some Doritos at the store last weekend? Check the kitchen to see if they're still there (hint, don't get your hopes up. I got hungry on my way out.) Wait. Are you sure you even went to the store, or was it a planted memory by PGI? What's real and what's altered PGI reality? Are dogs real? I think not. When was the last time you saw one? Why am I suddenly exposing the truth to you now? Maybe it's because I don't feel threatened by you because you were the one who wasn't real in the first place.

Hmmm....

[Ridersofdoom]

a sucker born every day, that's what matters.

[PanzerMagier]

Superchibisan, on 15 August 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't think it is justifiable to charge $80 for ADD-ON material. There are games that come with everything available for $60. I am completely skeptical at the money generation in this game and feel that paying for anything is a waste of real cash. MC credits cost $30 to get enough just to buy one mech? Ridiculous. I'll pay 30 if I can get all the mechs unlocked, and hey, I may even pay 5 bucks to get some more MC every once and a while. But as it stands, I'll play my one starter mech, and level up like normal. I understand that the peeps gotta get paid, but hell, EA doesn't even gouge its customer like this.

That said, I want these damn Phoenix Mechs without having to pay real money for them. Its a game *********.

Some people don't know a bargain even if it would hit them in the face. Look at the previous packages PGI gave us. The special sails and founders and so on. PP 80$ is the best deal PGI has thrown to us yet. ungrateful lout.

[Alex Warden]

tucsonspeed6, on 19 August 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

So let me get this straight... PGI is so diabolical that they have covert agents posing as players saying negative things about the company so they can manipulate other people into saying good things in return.

Now me personally, I'd probably just skip the middle man and just use my spies to just spread positive propaganda, but maybe I'm not as evil as PGI. Maybe they're so evil that they planted both naysayers as well as well-wishers in the same thread to rant back and forth. Maybe we're all plants from the massive PGI machine and you're the only one who's real. What if they were everywhere, controlling everything. What's that standing behind you? Nothing there? I thought so. I wouldn't be there now because I just left. Didn't you buy some Doritos at the store last weekend? Check the kitchen to see if they're still there (hint, don't get your hopes up. I got hungry on my way out.) Wait. Are you sure you even went to the store, or was it a planted memory by PGI? What's real and what's altered PGI reality? Are dogs real? I think not. When was the last time you saw one? Why am I suddenly exposing the truth to you now? Maybe it's because I don't feel threatened by you because you were the one who wasn't real in the first place.

Hmmm....

rofl, thx for that one...didn´t laugh that much in a while

[WVAnonymous]

Die Primate Die, on 15 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

This again, really?

What, it had been days since one of these threads started. There's absolutely no way a search would have turned up a thread on "Phoenix" + "overpriced".

Ever.

[White Bear 84]

OP,

1. The game is F2P, this is a F2P cash model - go take a look at any/F2P MMO and you will see how the have deals similar to this e.g. Mounts, content etc that you can only pay for (although in this case most of what you get you can wait for and get it for free)

2. Done this so many times - that $80 is actually valued at $170 worth of game content