55 replies to this topic

[tuffy963]

The last heat bump helped, but these guns are still the most powerful in the game. Another heat bump would help make these guns a bit of a harder choice for players.

My supporting observations...
1. Many lights forgo "appropriate" weaponry so they field 1 or 2 (ER)PPCs

2. The much talked about guass/ppc meta has persisted through the last ppc heat bump.

3. I feel naked without at least one ppc (in its current form) on my mech.

4. Players are still using (ER)PPC as primary dueling weapons.

We are seeing a lot more diversity on builds since the heat penalty was added. Just need to get some of these PPCs off the field.

Edited by tuffy963, 16 August 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[egreSS]

Yeah, uhh, no. I'm not a fan of PPC's effectiveness and I'm not sure why you think we need to get rid of something simply because it's a popular choice. It's an iconic weapon of the MW series and it's only been one week since it received it's second nerf in 3 months(first being cycle time) and that's not counting the anti-boating nerfs.

Let it settle for a bit after something get's nerfed, some people don't bother reading the patch notes. And as a side note, fuhgitabout suggesting additional heat unless you want to get things thrown at you - If suggesting a nerf for it, I'd suggest it needs it's minimum range penalty restored.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

I would argue that guass rifles are becoming just as common lately. pretty much 50-75% of mechs on the field now seems to have some combo of guass and/or ppc. Since guass rifles seem like they would require such a large amount of current (similar to ppc actually) make it so you can only fire 2 ppcs or 1 guass within x (.25-5 secs) or you will overdraw too much current and shut down. it probably makes no sense from a canon perspective but gameplay balance is more important to most players i would think and outside of some sort of value limit for mech equipment idk how else to balance.

[Corvus Antaka]

more heat they are still too efficient vs other guns.

[Deathlike]

Even if you changed the PPC/ERPPC heat to stock levels, it generally means more PPCs instead of ERPPCs.

The problem unfortunately that people choose to either ignore or not want to understand is the insanely high heat capacity. Just putting on a 250 engine with the basic 10 DHS you get from an engine gets you a heat capacity of 50.. and when you elited the mech (meaning double heat containment), heat capacity is at 60 (before adding more DHS).

That in itself allows for the high alpha PPC/ERPPC meta that has existed in the first place... even before heat penalties were a factor.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 August 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[KAT Ayanami]

tuffy963, on 16 August 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

The last heat bump helped, but these guns are still the most powerful in the game. Another heat bump would help make these guns a bit of a harder choice for players.

My supporting observations...
1. Many lights forgo "appropriate" weaponry so they field 1 or 2 (ER)PPCs

2. The much talked about guass/ppc meta has persisted through the last ppc heat bump.

3. I feel naked without at least one ppc (in its current form) on my mech.

4. Players are still using (ER)PPC as primary dueling weapons.

We are seeing a lot more diversity on builds since the heat penalty was added. Just need to get some of these PPCs off the field.

Ok, STOP asking for PPC nerfs already.

How much heat you do want them to have???? You cannot shoot 2 ERPPCs more than twice before overheating like crazy. That means that they are only sniper weapons. And regular PPCs cannot shoot close.

I already changed my 2 PPCs for 2 ERLLs like almost everyone else due to the high heat. What else do you want?

The idea is to nerf a weapon so it is not Overpowered, not make it useless like a freaking flamer!

Tw1stedMonkey, on 16 August 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I would argue that guass rifles are becoming just as common lately. pretty much 50-75% of mechs on the field now seems to have some combo of guass and/or ppc. Since guass rifles seem like they would require such a large amount of current (similar to ppc actually) make it so you can only fire 2 ppcs or 1 guass within x (.25-5 secs) or you will overdraw too much current and shut down. it probably makes no sense from a canon perspective but gameplay balance is more important to most players i would think and outside of some sort of value limit for mech equipment idk how else to balance.

Side question. Why are always people calling GAUSS Rifles - GUASS?

Is that a joke I do not know? Or people just do not know how to read?

[tuffy963]

egreSS, on 16 August 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Yeah, uhh, no. I'm not a fan of PPC's effectiveness and I'm not sure why you think we need to get rid of something simply because it's a popular choice. It's an iconic weapon of the MW series and it's only been one week since it received it's second nerf in 3 months(first being cycle time) and that's not counting the anti-boating nerfs.

Let it settle for a bit after something get's nerfed, some people don't bother reading the patch notes. And as a side note, fuhgitabout suggesting additional heat unless you want to get things thrown at you - If suggesting a nerf for it, I'd suggest it needs it's minimum range penalty restored.

I didn't say get rid of it. I said it needs another nerf. It is dominate on the battlefield another point of heat for all PPCs would make it a less obvious choice. Don't really care what you throw at me...

[Dracol]

Until the Panther mech is released, other light mechs will be used to field the ppc. When the spider was released, I ran it with a single erppc... guess it finally caught on

[tuffy963]

Deathlike, on 16 August 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Even if you changed the PPC/ERPPC heat to stock levels, it generally means more PPCs instead of ERPPCs.

The problem unfortunately that people choose to either ignore or not want to understand is the insanely high heat capacity. Just putting on a 250 engine with the basic 10 DHS you get from an engine gets you a heat capacity of 50.. and when you elited the mech (meaning double coolrun), heat capacity is at 60 (before adding more DHS).

That in itself allows for the high alpha PPC/ERPPC meta that has existed in the first place... even before heat penalties were a factor.

Well let's go ahead and nerf it anyway and test your theory...

[Deathlike]

tuffy963, on 16 August 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Well let's go ahead and nerf it anyway and test your theory...

Sure, let my HGN-732 run freely killing stuff with PPCs, ERPPCs, and Gauss... making the simple build more powerful for me, and less for everyone else that can't handle it... good idea.

[Corvus Antaka]

KAT Ayanami, on 16 August 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

You cannot shoot 2 ERPPCs more than twice before overheating like crazy. That means that they are only sniper weapons. And regular PPCs cannot shoot close.

I can shoot 4 with my 4 erppc stalker and i can shoot 2 5-6 times with a stalker and even 4-5 times with a blackjack before needing fluid flush, which lets me shoot even more.

[TheStrider]

The real problem is 12 man mobs. If you close withing brawling weapon range, you get jumped by 5-10 mechs and instantaniously get your CT blown away.

So if you cant close, you need longer ranged weapons. Engage at distance is the only way to survive currently.

I dont know if it's more of a metagame problem than a weapon balance issue.

[Deathlike]

TheStrider, on 16 August 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

The real problem is 12 man mobs. If you close withing brawling weapon range, you get jumped by 5-10 mechs and instantaniously get your CT blown away.

So if you cant close, you need longer ranged weapons. Engage at distance is the only way to survive currently.

I dont know if it's more of a metagame problem than a weapon balance issue.

It has always been a high heat capacity issue that allows for high heat weapons like the PPC and ERPPC to thrive w/o being penalized too much.

[Corvus Antaka]

TheStrider, on 16 August 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I dont know if it's more of a metagame problem than a weapon balance issue.

it is a balance in the sense that brawling carries tons of risk and little chance of reward since snipers arent really any worse at brawling than brawlers.

[tuffy963]

Deathlike, on 16 August 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Sure, let my HGN-732 run freely killing stuff with PPCs, ERPPCs, and Gauss... making the simple build more powerful for me, and less for everyone else that can't handle it... good idea.

Ah, so you are arguing against another ppc nerf for all those players who are not as skilled as you. Again, I would happily risk your theoretical dominance on the battlefield to see this weapon get another balance nerf.

[Deathlike]

tuffy963, on 16 August 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Ah, so you are arguing against another ppc nerf for all those players who are not as skilled as you. Again, I would happily risk your theoretical dominance on the battlefield to see this weapon get another balance nerf.

I never said that I didn't want the nerf, but ultimately its impact is minimal given how things work in MWO.

Besides, I've been saying this prior to the both ghost heat penalty nerfs, one before linking PPCs AND after PPC linkage.

See, people have said these things, and what happens.. the meta is still the same. If people bothered to learn WHY it still functions just fine, then people would have better ideas in place of these horrible balance changes that do little to nothing to resolve the problem at hand.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 August 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[DaZur]

No offense OP but what a silly statement...

How many is too many exactly?

PPC are an apex weapon... big damage that is all front-loaded. Exactly as it's supposed to be. Under the present meta, there is no greater goal other than to kill other mechs, why on God's green earth would a sane person not utilize the tools given...

Granted... I'm borderline nuts so I don't use them... but I'm speaking in generalized terms.

[General Taskeen]

Ultimately if I had developed this game, firing 2 ER PPC's would spike heat to the max cap, requiring to cool off, while regular PPC's could fire 2, then 1, then cool off, etc. That's the whole point of the original heat cap idea used in previous Mech titles, which is taken from TT itself and enhanced for real-time. Thus, no more "ghost" heat nonsense would be needed. The hottest most damaging energy weapons would require you to cool off, perhaps even include heat penalties like slowing down, SHS and DHS would be viable and balanced and dissipate heat quickly, and heat neutral Mechs would exist.

Edited by General Taskeen, 16 August 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Deathlike]

Heat neutrality doesn't exist because PGI wants to sell Coolant.

Yes, you could avoid buying Coolant with real money, but PGI like any company will try to incentivize anything that they provide.

[Soldryn]

Ya know, if we didn't have this stupid mechanic of allowing weapons to do damage outside their maximum range we wouldn't have ANY of these problems. If the gauss/ppc people couldn't sit at 800-1km+ and still do damage, brawlers would be an actual threat to them. If you had to be inside 750m to do your damage, you might have to, dare i say it, THINK about your positioning more.