361 replies to this topic

[Hellya]

MuffinTop, on 13 July 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

This is not HOW Zardner feels its the gospel from the game devs,so now you know!

Dropping the word Dev with no content adds no merit to any discussion. It only shallows the topic.

Something, something, grammar.

[Booty Magic]

MuffinTop, on 13 July 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

This is not HOW Zardner feels its the gospel from the game devs,so now you know!

.zzz

[MuffinTop]

Hellya, on 13 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Dropping the word Dev with no content adds no merit to any discussion. It only shallows the topic.

Something, something, grammar.

So you want me to do the work for you, the SEARCH doesn't work for you, or you don't want to use it? Is there another reason you don't know ?

[Freakiie]

Bluten, on 13 July 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

The issue is that the guy that runs only pre-mades will have a higher win rate while the guy running random games solo will have a lower win rate. This will be true even if they are equally skilled, meaning this isn't a skill difference yet the % will try to reflect it as one. If they do put in some kind of stat like this, then I hope the solo win rate is totally separate from the win rate via queuing with friends. I would make it like this:

Solo win rate: (Solo in pug)
Lance win rate: (Queuing with 1-3 friends, aka a pre-made of a full Lance or less)
Company win rate: (Queuing with more than 3 people; a full 5-12 pre-made, more than 1 lance)

While this is true to an extent, you must also remember that a lance of bad players will just end up with an even worse WR compared to them going on their own. So even if you are playing with premades, you still have to be a decent player to get decent stats.

Of course there is the possibility that people get pulled by other good members in their lance/company but how likely is it really that one of the best lances in the game would take some random and play with them? Of course they wouldn't, they'd only pick somebody of which they know they're good. The best clans in FPS games aren't the best by random inviting, they are the best because they recruit the best.

[Hellya]

MuffinTop, on 13 July 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

So you want me to do the work for you, the SEARCH doesn't work for you, or you don't want to use it? Is there another reason you don't know ?

No I want you to contribute to the conversation not muddy the waters with bad posts.

Either way if you did your work, you would have seen an example I gave earlier as to why they matter.

If what you say is legit. Here is some food for thought; even Dev's have different opinions than one another. Your point is?

[MuffinTop]

Hellya, on 13 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

No I want you to contribute to the conversation not muddy the waters with bad posts.

Either way if you did your work, you would have seen an example I gave earlier as to why they matter.

If what you say is legit. Here is some food for thought; even Dev's have different opinions than one another. Your point is?

My point is they made the game , and when they say pilot experience matters, and not win/loss rate then I'm going to believe them.

Edited by MuffinTop, 13 July 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[Hellya]

MuffinTop, on 13 July 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

My point is they made the game , and when they say pilot experience matters, and not win/loss rate then I'm going to believe them.

You are bad at this, you give no info and claim things that are out their in the void.

Again if what you say is true. One Dev's feelings does not mean their will be no win/loss ratio. Also, it does not mean it does not matter, it means that person does not think it matters. Since they are not here to back up your claim, you should start backing your own claims instead with some sound, creative ideas of your own. I don't do follow the leader.

Are you picking this up yet?

[MuffinTop]

Yeah I'm picking up on what you are saying. I'm hoping this will be straightened out soon and we can all hug it out later.

[Hellya]

MuffinTop, on 13 July 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Yeah I'm picking up on what you are saying. I'm hoping this will be straightened out soon and we can all hug it out later.

Only if there is some borderline hand on back rubbing involved.

[silentD11]

Stats matter not, only league and tournament wins count for anything.

Top players playing other top players will have worse stats than mediocre players stomping noobs, that's all you need to know about the value of stats.

[jper4]

Kaptain Kombat, on 13 July 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

I think the best way to settle this is have 1 versus 1 matches with Win, Loss, Tie Stats for all to see.

MPBT the 1v1 was pretty big. I think it could add a lot to MWO.

That way Dozer you could just kill the Quasimodo in a duel so you wouldn't have to hold up your "Second to last place Trophy"

1 versus 1 would be a great way to settle scores, differences AND find out who the best One on One players are.

So my vote is to have Stats and have them public in our profiles.
.

actually if he won a 1 on 1 duel he would have the "second to last place trohpy" anyway. though in this case it would be called the winner's trophy. and of course given my luck someone has already mentioned this in the two pages i haven;t finished reading yet...

[Boneripper]

Stats don't bother me. They should have a dps counter or something for the different weight classes. In games I play you can tell the good players from the not so good. I hate the players that are yelling at you after the fight that they were AFK. It's like bragging we are to stupid to catch them not playing a game they paid for. lol They get points or whatever and did nothing. I don't want players that are on your team to get credit for doing nothing. Just my 2 cents.

[Name48928]

You can't be Word of Blake without having your stats! You heretics.

Edited by MinionJoe, 13 July 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[SteelRavynn]

Stats mean very little. I would rather drop with someone with mediocre stats because he consistently plays with the very best players in the game than someone who goes out of their way to fight with bad/ok players to boost their stats. As has already been mentioned, the best will know already who's good enough to team with. I won't blink an eye just because I see some random guy with crazy awesome stats. In fact, I would automatically be suspicious which would just add on more pressure...let's drop a couple practice rounds..and he better back it up.

[Sean von Steinike]

MuffinTop, on 13 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Now that I have your attention, K/D doesn't matter its overall pilot experience is what counts in the game. More experience gets you more skill i.e. which makes you a more valuable player to you, your lance, merc corp or house.

Maybe just a simple "total hours piloting" and "hours piloting this chassis" would suffice for public viewing and only by your own side. The enemy should never have any stats view-able at all.

[Foglines]

Rushyo, on 13 July 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Incorrect. For a start, it doesn't hold true unless you play exclusively solo in PUG games and so does everyone else. It also doesn't hold true unless you play evenly at all times of day and so does everyone else (it's silly how much you can improve poker winnings by deliberately playing against tired opponents). It also doesn't hold true unless the meta-game is eternally balanced. What is 'good play' one day might be 'bad play' the next. And even forgetting those factors, there always remains a margin of error regardless of the number of iterations, it just reduces over time.

I would add that it also creates a scenario which biases a player's play throughout their entire career, which does not necessarily reflect their current skill - people tend to improve over time (at different rates) but that is not reflected strongly in their stats if they have a long career.

So, no.

Addendum: Let's also include the factor of people who just want to test out and try different builds, modes, etc. The more somebody does this, the worse their stats will be regardless of their ability as a MechWarrior.

Wrong. If everyone plays at different times//days etc, then it doesn't matter. If you say that playing in companies will increase win rate because it is easier to win in companies, then the other company you are playing against has that same advantage and therefore the advantage cancels out and there is no advantage. In clan wars the advantages cancel out as well since both sides will have the same advantages.

The only slight advantage you may have is playing in a platoon in PUGS due to the fact that if you team up with other 56%+ winners you guarantee that one less 45%- winners are on your team. The team has no advantage if a 3 person platoon consists of all 45%- players, it actually becomes a handicap.

I hate these threads as win rate seems to be like religion, you can never change another persons mind and making the same points over and over again in numerous threads seems akin to bashing your head into a brick wall. No opinions will ever change over these type of threads and a part of me hopes there will be no stats so I don't have to see these threads anymore...but, I like stats and I really do want as many as they will give us.

[Zardnaar]

Stats were generally accurate up to a point in WoT. People used an XVM mod to work out each plauyers win/loss rate. It was not very good at picking good players due to various ways to mik your stats (beta testest, tank companies, platoons, premium accounts/tanks gold rounds etc). It was accurate enough to pick the bad players though- generally the 45% and lower ones. Really low (40% and below) were generally bots, afkers and people whould would drive to some pointless part of the map and do nothing game after game. Or it would also indicate team killers.

Having information like that I thinkis fine but it should not be available in game or be used on the forums to brag/belittle players. If anyone cares make them look up an individual players stats.IDK how MWO xp/$$$ system worked but WoT had incentive for players to spam games and hope for a 2-300xp game of 500 xp game on a win just or being there. PLayer enough one and two minute games and speed grind to tier 10. Hopefully MWO will be different.

[silentD11]

SteelRavynn, on 13 July 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Stats mean very little. I would rather drop with someone with mediocre stats because he consistently plays with the very best players in the game than someone who goes out of their way to fight with bad/ok players to boost their stats. As has already been mentioned, the best will know already who's good enough to team with. I won't blink an eye just because I see some random guy with crazy awesome stats. In fact, I would automatically be suspicious which would just add on more pressure...let's drop a couple practice rounds..and he better back it up.

Bingo, I played top level Quake, UT, and Tribes. The best players had ******* horrible stats, like god awful, and these were the best in the world. Why? Because we played on locked dueling servers against the other top players in our country/region. We played countless scrimmage matches and duels testing new tactics and tricks against other top players all to get ready for important matches and tournaments.

Compare that to mediocre players that get on public servers where it's easy to rage the hell out of noobs and lack luster players. When we did goof around on public servers going 30+ kills with no deaths was rather simple. It's also one of the reasons good players don't, it's worthless.

Stats are deceptive. Very good stats simply imply that you are playing against much weaker players than you are on an average basis, very bad stats mean that you are playing against much better players on an average basis. Trying to read meaning into it beyond that is pointless.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Shoklar, on 13 July 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

You're really letting your ignorance show. I'm not going to spend my time going through random people like that...and neither is someone from another hardcore guild.

You have to "tryout" people anyway - except you don't care about the personality of your teammates and simply recruit after meaningless W/L ratio from (laughable) open games. In this case: have fun with all those douchebags. Probably stats will help you out to save some time cuz you're only looking into 80 % W/L and more. But then again: even a 46 % guy can be more than decent - even though he ended up in the wrong teams over and over again (opposite applies for utterly crappy people who luckily kept ending up in good teams).

Shoklar, on 13 July 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Your 80% win example is also completely illogical since you say that this would be taken from random matches.

Thats why I've said if they have a couple of their "once in a lifetime" games. Winning much by ending up in the better teams and voila: even an utterly crappy player has decent stats.



tl,dr: I'm neither for or against stats - basically I don't care. Bottom line I'd like to point out is that stats only mean squat if they are getting tracked in games with EQUAL conditions for both teams. Something you usually won't archive in (random) open games. Everything else is like comparing apples with oranges.

[Red squirrel]

Sadly, stats seem to be overweighted by the stupid and mentally impaired.

What does it tell you before a 12v12 match if one player has 45% or 55% win ratio?
Even if it would translate linearly on your teams chance to win it means less than 1% difference.
So please keep away with public stats.

On the other hand, to evaluate yourself it would be nice to have stats for each mech you own.
So you might see e.g: "I really love the scout role, but I am much better if I use the Jenner than the Commando"