361 replies to this topic

[Sean von Steinike]

Quasimoto, on 13 July 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

The people who don't want stats remind me of parents who want to award little Johnny with a trophy for coming in dead last in the race.
"Oh little Johnny, you tried so hard, you really won" Emmm NO, little Johnny got his arse handed to him by Debbie and he LOST.
Deal with it.

Sorry to disappoint you boys and girls of the forum but your whole life is pretty much measured by and surrounded by metrics.
Whether it's your SAT scores, your performance on the job your girlfriends evaluation of your performance in the sack or how long your PPC is.....We are all measured and I agree that it can become annoying at times dealing with Stat Monkeys.
However good news....I have a solution. Kill them on the Battlefield. How's that for an easy button?

People that act like a-holes over stats...if they acted like that in real life they would likely end up with a fist in their face. People get away with it because there is no repercussions for their a-hole behavior. They drive away new players, and hurt the game far more than their stupids stats will ever help.

[Faceless Priest]

Dozer, on 13 July 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Ok so at least somewhere to start.

Assuming that these represent a set of variables to be used to measure performance (based on the entire premise of this thread) are you intending to conduct correlational research i.e. do not (or at least try not to) influence any variables but only measure them and look for relations (correlations) OR experimental research i.e. manipulate some of the variables and then measure the effects of this manipulation on the other variables?

Also, do you believe the variable measurement should be nominal, ordinal, interval or ratio?

oh no, i'm not saying these are the things we should use to determine if people are good, i was just saying what i want to be shown. Not that these are the things that SHOULD be shown

[Scouten]

i despise people getting worked up over a simple KDR i also despise a public KDR in general. i am not saying this because i am a bad player but those ???XVM??? users in WoT are just plain A-Holes they act like elitist *****,

[Dozer]

Quasimoto, on 13 July 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I think they should have stats, they should be public with no option to turning them off.
I think eventually this game is going to have 1v1 death match and if that is the case then a win/loss record is going to be a given.

The people who don't want stats remind me of parents who want to award little Johnny with a trophy for coming in dead last in the race.
"Oh little Johnny, you tried so hard, you really won" Emmm NO, little Johnny got his arse handed to him by Debbie and he LOST.
Deal with it.

Sorry to disappoint you boys and girls of the forum but your whole life is pretty much measured by and surrounded by metrics.
Whether it's your SAT scores, your performance on the job your girlfriends evaluation of your performance in the sack or how long your PPC is.....We are all measured and I agree that it can become annoying at times dealing with Stat Monkeys.
However good news....I have a solution. Kill them on the Battlefield. How's that for an easy button?




I like to have a good brag once in a while...you know the ones sitting around with your buddies and bragging on the 8 point buck you got.
As far as mentally challenged....some more than others but honestly I put you at the top of the list.
You will probably be the one in the Atlas trying to hide behind an Urbies skirt.
See you on the Battlefield little Johnny.

And here is a prime example of why I don't want statistics. It just adds more fuel to the trolls.

[Dozer]

Faceless Priest, on 13 July 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

oh no, i'm not saying these are the things we should use to determine if people are good, i was just saying what i want to be shown. Not that these are the things that SHOULD be shown

Okey dokey. I'll put the question out to our pvp statisticians out then.

Using the examples given and questions I asked of Faceless Priest previously what would be your answers? I'm trying to get a better sense of the opposite side of the debate from a more logical perspective.

Edited by Dozer, 13 July 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Quasimoto]

Dozer, on 13 July 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

And here is a prime example of why I don't want statistics. It just adds more fuel to the trolls.

I think the prime example as to why you don't want stats in listed in my post.
You will be a poor player so you want your stats hidden.
As I said before the easiest way to deal with Stat jerks is to kill them....if you can't kill them then I guess they are better than you.
I fully expect to be cannon fodder in these games until I get it figured out and then I'll probably settle into the Average Player realm as far as Stats go. No worries. That's fine....there are people who are better than me. It's all good, I'm not going to cry about like you will.
Don't worry though bro you will still get your Trophy for second to last place.

[Shoklar]

If your intention is to compete in the metagame, then stats (in a proper context) are an important recruiting tool for a guild/clan/whatever you want to call it. Context is very important when looking at stats, and the more stats you have available...the more you can tell about a player.

There is absolutely no reason for everyone to be so up in arms about the possiblity of stats being shown. If you don't want them shown...then you're not going to be competitive in the metagame...and that's fine, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you're not going to be apping to a guild that's competitive in the metagame, then your stats don't really matter in the first place...so why are you worried if they're displayed or not? If you don't want to see them, then don't look at them.

Now do I think that there should be a big flashing tag over your mech during a match, saying that you're a casual gamer with a 40% win rate? Absolutely not...that would only lead to griefing by trolls. But the stats are a very important recruiting tool...and not having them available would lead to many headaches for the "hardcore" people, who spend the most money on a game like this. Those kinds of people won't stick around if it's impossible to recruit the "best of the best" to their guild, the game will have significantly less income, and it will fail in time.

For the health and longevity of the game, stats must be available in some way, shape or form.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Open game stats mean crap anyway.
Even if you're mechgod™ in persona - if your team is made of noobs or heavily outtonned you will lose that round and therefor your mighty stats will drop because W = 0, L = +1. Same for personal stats. Who cares how many mechs you've managed to take down when it's a team game and people simply begin to "cherry pick" crit mechs just in order to get that +1 kill for their own stats?

The only (probably) real useful stats would be teamstats from organized league games (with same conditions for both parties dropping on the field).

Open games are just 4 teh lulz.



EDIT:

Shoklar, on 13 July 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

But the stats are a very important recruiting tool...and not having them available would lead to many headaches for the "hardcore" people, who spend the most money on a game like this.

Fail.
Simply pick someone up, have a couple games with/against him and see if he fits in skill- and personalitywise. If not, he gets the boot.

People who are "taking care" at their stats to much tend to end up having a couple good games once in a lifetime (hence: getting their stats up) and simply bailing out of every game where their stats might get lowered cuz' they simply suck.
Ohai - u haz 80 % win streakz, u kool mkay? -> Nobody knows if that guy really is that awesome or simply invested enough time to kill helpless noobs over and over again.

Edited by WaddeHaddeDudeda2, 13 July 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Shoklar, on 13 July 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

If your intention is to compete in the metagame, then stats (in a proper context) are an important recruiting tool for a guild/clan/whatever you want to call it. Context is very important when looking at stats, and the more stats you have available...the more you can tell about a player.

There is absolutely no reason for everyone to be so up in arms about the possiblity of stats being shown. If you don't want them shown...then you're not going to be competitive in the metagame...and that's fine, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you're not going to be apping to a guild that's competitive in the metagame, then your stats don't really matter in the first place...so why are you worried if they're displayed or not? If you don't want to see them, then don't look at them.

Now do I think that there should be a big flashing tag over your mech during a match, saying that you're a casual gamer with a 40% win rate? Absolutely not...that would only lead to griefing by trolls. But the stats are a very important recruiting tool...and not having them available would lead to many headaches for the "hardcore" people, who spend the most money on a game like this. Those kinds of people won't stick around if it's impossible to recruit the "best of the best" to their guild, the game will have significantly less income, and it will fail in time.

For the health and longevity of the game, stats must be available in some way, shape or form.

They are fine to have... PRIVATELY. As soon as that stuff gets made public, ***-hattery and e-peen stroking, and bad teamwork happen. And you could have one the best players out there, that doesn't join a guild look like rubbish because they end up just playing open pub games with the inherent perils to stats pub games can produce with the variable quality of teams. It never fails. Stat hound belittle and treat new players like garbage and make people not want to play listing to these asshats.

[Dozer]

Quasimoto, on 13 July 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

I think the prime example as to why you don't want stats in listed in my post.
You will be a poor player so you want your stats hidden.
As I said before the easiest way to deal with Stat jerks is to kill them....if you can't kill them then I guess they are better than you.
I fully expect to be cannon fodder in these games until I get it figured out and then I'll probably settle into the Average Player realm as far as Stats go. No worries. That's fine....there are people who are better than me. It's all good, I'm not going to cry about like you will.
Don't worry though bro you will still get your Trophy for second to last place.

Very poor rebuttal my friend, very poor indeed. That sad old argument that 'you must be a poor player, that's why you don't want public statistics' is a false proposition. It's based on the faulty logic that people have something to hide if and only if they are guilty despite the fact that people have lots of things they'd like to keep private, for a variety of reasons, even if they are not guilty. And sadly for you I have actually stated my reasons for not wanting statistics (yours or anyone else) in a number of previous posts, and yet you still believe it is because I am a bad player. So again your proposition, in the face of all the evidence, is false.

But thank you for the trophy. I was happy to participate.

Edited by Dozer, 13 July 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[MechMunchies]

I think the best way to settle this is have 1 versus 1 matches with Win, Loss, Tie Stats for all to see.

MPBT the 1v1 was pretty big. I think it could add a lot to MWO.

That way Dozer you could just kill the Quasimodo in a duel so you wouldn't have to hold up your "Second to last place Trophy"

1 versus 1 would be a great way to settle scores, differences AND find out who the best One on One players are.

So my vote is to have Stats and have them public in our profiles.
.

[Lettuce Prey]

stats for number of kills should not be available.
if you are going to display how deadly you are use damage delivered.

in team battles there is NO KILL STEALING.
if you have been shooting at some target and chipping away at them while they chip at you and some one else gets the final shot on them, that's called an assist, not a theft.
if you are trying to puff up your own stats for kills then this is a problem.
if there is no stat for kills then it looks like what it actually is.
teamwork.

one of the things i am proud of is when i get the confederate badge in WOT.
i also like the scout badge. especially in a heavy.
but to get scout badge with arty means that your team is not doing it's job.

[Sean von Steinike]

Kaptain Kombat, on 13 July 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

I think the best way to settle this is have 1 versus 1 matches with Win, Loss, Tie Stats for all to see.

MPBT the 1v1 was pretty big. I think it could add a lot to MWO.

That way Dozer you could just kill the Quasimodo in a duel so you wouldn't have to hold up your "Second to last place Trophy"

1 versus 1 would be a great way to settle scores, differences AND find out who the best One on One players are.

So my vote is to have Stats and have them public in our profiles.
.

1 vs 1 is stupid too. If one person plays assaults all the time and the other plays fire support all the time, the fire support pilot is likely going to get his or her clock cleaned even if they are the best fire support person in the whole game.

[MechMunchies]

Sean von Steinike, on 13 July 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

1 vs 1 is stupid too. If one person plays assaults all the time and the other plays fire support all the time, the fire support pilot is likely going to get his or her clock cleaned even if they are the best fire support person in the whole game.

It's not stupid at all.
Both Pilots agree on what Mech, Class etc.
The fire support guy could only agree to fight in his fav Fire Support Mech and both Pilots could agree to fight in exact spec'ed Mechs.
Or they could use whatever Mech was available in a certain class or they could agree on Match in a mis-matched weight class.
Heavy vs Assualt for example.

In MPBT it was a blast and many of us really enjoyed it.

So stupid? You are entitled to your opinion but you might want to tone it down a bit.
I don't like being called stupid ok?

Edit: And it would really make you a better Pilot because you can duel in so many Mechs. Variety is the spice of life.
Remember you don't have to duel. You can refuse.

Edited by Kaptain Kombat, 13 July 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Kaptain Kombat, on 13 July 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

It's not stupid at all.
Both Pilots agree on what Mech, Class etc.
The fire support guy could only agree to fight in his fav Fire Support Mech and both Pilots could agree to fight in exact spec'ed Mechs.
Or they could use whatever Mech was available in a certain class or they could agree on Match in a mis-matched weight class.
Heavy vs Assualt for example.

In MPBT it was a blast and many of us really enjoyed it.

So stupid? You are entitled to your opinion but you might want to tone it down a bit.
I don't like being called stupid ok?

Sorry, but I didn't call you stupid, just the thought that 1vs 1 proves something is stupid. You could have the top 1 vs 1 player in the whole game, still be worthless crap when it comes to team play because they won't follow orders, act like glory hounds, shout down and belittle their teammates.

[Grugore]

The only thing I care about is how my merc unit does, and how well I perform my role in the battle. I'm going with a scout and I think I'll be pretty awesome at it. I'll be running and jumping and firing narc beacons and raising holy hell with my Jenner.

[Shoklar]

WaddeHaddeDudeda2, on 13 July 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Fail.
Simply pick someone up, have a couple games with/against him and see if he fits in skill- and personalitywise. If not, he gets the boot.

People who are "taking care" at their stats to much tend to end up having a couple good games once in a lifetime (hence: getting their stats up) and simply bailing out of every game where their stats might get lowered cuz' they simply suck.
Ohai - u haz 80 % win streakz, u kool mkay? -> Nobody knows if that guy really is that awesome or simply invested enough time to kill helpless noobs over and over again.

You're really letting your ignorance show. I'm not going to spend my time going through random people like that...and neither is someone from another hardcore guild. The ones who have decent all round stats, I might take the time to do what you suggest...but I've got better things to do with my time than babysit scrubs. I'm also not about to tag someone who I have no clue how they play, and let them potentially sully the name of DROW, by being a terrible player...or by being a complete d-bag to other players in a public match.

So leave the hardcore to those of us who have been hardcore gamers for over 15 years...our system works.

Your 80% win example is also completely illogical since you say that this would be taken from random matches. How are you going to ensure that the entire enemy team is played by chimpanzee's flinging feces, with no keyboards?

I may be a hardcore elitist plick, but you're either unable to complete a logical argument, or you want to be an elitist plick since you think the opposing team always sucks (but you always have bad stats because somehow they always beat you because they "cheated"). Which is it?

Fail to you, sir.


Edit: Plick is not a dirty word...there's no reason for it to be censored.

Edited by Shoklar, 13 July 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[Leetskeet]

ITT Knowing how well you and others do is a bad thing

I DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO SEE THAT I SUCK PGI

[CmdrSpider]

Private or Public stats sounds like a lot of PP there to C (pardon the stupid play on words). Both arguement have a lot of truth to them. On one side your judged for low stats on the other players can't determine your skills. While the later might sound like no big deal I personally would like to know if your skilled or not then I can kind of judge whether I need to keep watching over my shoulder or not. Perhaps the solution would be for command units to have access to this knowledge. After a commander should know his troops, their strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately I don't believe it really makes that much difference, I'm more than willing to let others see how I'm performing. I mentioned in another thread that it might be nice if we had an overall kdr and a weekly kdr as the first would show how we've done over the long haul and the weekly would reflect how our games have been turning out lately. Another thought just entered my neurohelmet, perhaps your kdr should be reflective of the mech you currently piloting also.

[3rdworld]

KDR or Win/Loss will most likely be shown. But for picking groups it would be nice to see the pilots KDR vs the same size of mech.

Like Assault vs Assault KDR, Light vs Light.

Otherwise it will be too easy for a pilot to rack up a high KDR by slaying many lighter mechs.