361 replies to this topic

[Gremlich Johns]

Touting your game stats is just another form of trolling, frankly. Stats studied privately, in my opinion, allows you to target on how to play harder/better or will induce you to team with players whose "demonstrated" in-game skill obviously exceeds your own. Viewing other peoples stats is boring anyway. If someone is a better player, you do not need to see his stats to tell that, you can tell while he is pwning you. Likewise when you encouter an inferior player - you need stats to tell you he stinks? For reals?

Of course, if you cannot exist without knowing other peoples stats, go ahead and use your time that way instead of on more practical matters, like getting in-game and playing more.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 13 July 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[Faceless Priest]

Some stats i don't want to see
KDR
Wins
Lossess
Games Played

Some stats i do want to see
average weight class
total time played
damage taken
damage done
points captured (if there are)
level/xp
# of mechs

screw it, you know what? i'm far more interested in them putting in stats a lot of games DONT then NOT putting in stats other games do.

The only reason KDR causes a problem is becuase people focus on it, usually because of lack of other stats provided.

In the end if people focus on KDR that's a issue with the people, not the game. If KDR isn't in the game then the same people will just find some other just as arbitrary and pointless thing to focus on or justify their leaving the match.

[Twisted Power]

They should only show the number of wins a person has.

Losses are irrelevant in an online game as there are outside uncontrollable circumstances that can and do lead to loss.

Edited by Twisted Power, 13 July 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[Faceless Priest]

Twisted Power, on 13 July 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

They should only show the number of wins a person has.

Losses are irrelevant in an online game as there are outside uncontrollable circumstances that can and do lead to loss.

and why do wins matter then? If wins matter at all then WtL ratio matters. If all you do is show wins it beats the point of showing it. Won 11 games, ok? out of 11? out of 50? why even show it? Why not just show "games played" instead?

[DoctorJest]

Dozer, on 13 July 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

I think at the end of the day the statistics themselves aren't the problems, it's the statistical illiteracy of the people using them. They see a figure and don't actually understand the basis for it, yet they judge people against it. They see a number but not how or why it manifest.

Take something as simple as an 'average'. Is that to be the arithmetic mean, median or mode? Should it be a simple moving average, a cumulative moving average, a weighted moving average or an exponentially moving average? Should it be smoothed? Or is it better to look at a moving median average? The list goes on.

Would it surprise you that most people off the top of their head couldn't tell you? And yet some here strongly insist that even something as 'simple' as an average should be used to illustrate/predict performance in order to improve their gaming experience. If you don't understand what made the result, how the results interact, what are the independent and dependent variables that can be controlled are and their strength and reliability etc then how on earth can you hope to make an informed decision? You can't, thus the veracity of statistics in this context is questionable (at best). In statistical terms the p-value (statistical significance) becomes astronomically high i.e. no relationship can be found that can be reliably used to predict future events.

So again I ask, why bother? It's a virtual game, not real life.

This lack of numeracy is irrelevant to many - the process by which a figure is arrived at is not as important (in their minds) as the potential for Epeen stroking that figure represents, or the commensurate ability to belittle others. Even those statistics such as damage per battle aren't in any way shape or form reliable for the most part because (to use a WoT example) I play a lot of scouts who's spotting capabilities can dictate a battle far more efficiently than a shell in the right place.

The values aren't weighted proportionally (even with the calculations themselves being revised) and so ultimately, yet again, I would rather by far we left them all by the wayside and moved on.

Quote

People will be elitists with or without stats, if there are no visible stats then some will mention post counts or how long they've played MWO or BT games in general to prove they are above someone else, nothing can stop this.

Post count is irrelevant. Content is far more important.

As for length of play - I'm old, sue me

Gremlich Johns, on 13 July 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Touting your game stats is just another form of trolling, frankly. Stats studied privately, in my opinion, allows you to target on how to play harder/better or will induce you to team with players whose "demonstrated" in-game skill obviously exceeds your own. Viewing other peoples stats is boring anyway. If someone is a better player, you do not need to see his stats to tell that, you can tell while he is pwning you. Likewise when you encouter an inferior player - you need stats to tell you he stinks? For reals?

Of course, if you cannot exist without knowing other peoples stats, go ahead and use your time that way instead of on more practical matters, like getting in-game and playing more.

I concur.

[Dozer]

Faceless Priest, on 13 July 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Some stats i don't want to see
KDR
Wins
Lossess
Games Played

Some stats i do want to see
average weight class
total time played
damage taken
damage done
points captured (if there are)
level/xp
# of mechs

Please, please explain to me why exactly you want those particular statistics included, each and every one needs a reason so I can fully understand your reasoning. And how would you suggest they calculate these things? What will be the variables that would be acceptable, and why so? I am genuinely interested.

Edited by Dozer, 13 July 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[princemachiavelli]

The difficulty with having only private stats is you have nothing to compare them with, so they are somewhat meaningless. There needs to be some sort of public average as a bench mark, at least.

[bpphantom]

I hope there's no metric put in place that displays a win ratio or anything else. Faction standing or influence is fine as it has no effect on your team winning or losing. In all cases if you end up in a drop with someone and they're consistently good/bad you will for your own opinions and make your own decisions.

[Dozer]

DoctorJest, on 13 July 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

This lack of numeracy is irrelevant to many - the process by which a figure is arrived at is not as important (in their minds) as the potential for Epeen stroking that figure represents, or the commensurate ability to belittle others. Even those statistics such as damage per battle aren't in any way shape or form reliable for the most part because (to use a WoT example) I play a lot of scouts who's spotting capabilities can dictate a battle far more efficiently than a shell in the right place.

The values aren't weighted proportionally (even with the calculations themselves being revised) and so ultimately, yet again, I would rather by far we left them all by the wayside and moved on.

We're on the same page. My previous post was an optimistic albeit on reflection foolish attempt to demonstrate a logical reason for my position on this matter. Logic and E-Peening aka Trolling however don't often go hand-in-hand these days.

Maybe I should just pull out the old Atari and play Galaga

Edited by Dozer, 13 July 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Faceless Priest]

Dozer, on 13 July 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Please, please explain to me why exactly you want those particular statistics included, each and every one needs a reason so I can fully understand your reasoning. And how would you suggest they calculate these things? What will be the variables that would be acceptable, and why so? I am genuinely interested.

because they actualy have some input, especialy for group management.

-what size mech they use the most? shows what they have most experience for, helps with grouping
-total time played, shows you experience in the seat, if you think this dosn't matter...wow
-damage taken/damage done, it's a good understanding of weither the person is actualy being efficent or not, as well as more complicated issues. It also helps you understand if your doing soemthing wrong, like if your damage taken is way way higher then damage done, you'll know that you either arn't giving as much as you are reciving, or in the case of smaller mechs that you are failing to engage/avoid correctly
-points captured, shows that you actually understand how to play, not just be a dur dur kill them moron
-level/xp shows their experience and such, this will matter...a lot, if someoen is way higher then your lvl and has more time playing he will have better gear and skills. Does that mean he will stomp you? no, does that mean it will effect how well he does? Uh...yeah
-# of mechs, :shrugs: this is mostly to help with grouping, knowing if someone can fully go for dropshp, and tells you if they are a 1 mech wonder, but for the most part i think this i just threw up for the hell of it.

[Demoned]

i think it was the mod in WoT that induced all the rage, gave you a colour to the players name dependent on their win rate.

red=bad
orange= good/average
green= very good player over 52% win rate
and blue or purple= for epic player 75% or over winrate

haven't got it myself but a few in my clan have and they do comment with a lol that most of the players with the red name seem to die first

[Booty Magic]

jbev, on 13 June 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Please also understand that the previous sentence is an abject and irrefutable fact.

You must be a lot of fun at parties!

[Sadnebula]

Ancalagon, on 12 June 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

I fully expect the good players, especially teams, to have a winrate of 80%+, especially if you can have a team go up against a bunch of randoms (in which case the team will probably almost always win). It'd be nice to have a way to track this stat; not sure how it would be possible to pad a winrate anyway, as the matchmaking system should just try to match you up with different people for every game.

How about a compromise? People who don't want to display their stats can keep it private, and people who do want to display their stats can make it public.

Frankly, I really don't understand what the big deal is anyway, why do people even care about what other people online think of them? As long as you're winning the game without cheating (i.e hacks), that's all that matters IMO.

I agree. But after seeing what has happened to the WOT forums and in game chat since a certain mod has been used to enhance stat viewing.
Hell no, keep them private. It's like the Community I was a part of since beta disappeared and was replaced by A stats are God crowd, If your stats aren't such and such, shut up and just leave, you are ruining our game play.

Don't even think it can't happen here. WOT was one of the better communities I've been in at the start. Before the game went into beta, during beta and the 1st part of the live release, much like this one. Now, well it's sad to see what is has come down too.

Edited by Sadnebula, 13 July 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[Beneto]

Personally I am of the opinion that all the stats are great. Even win lose or kill to death ratios. The issue is not the state the issues is players who make stats the end all be all and turn into... jerks (among other things) about it and act elitest.

To sum up... stats good... people lording them over others or using them to determine how valuable somes opinion is bad.

[Faceless Priest]

Sadnebula, on 13 July 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

I agree. But after seeing what has happened to the WOT forums and in game chat since a certain mod has been used to enhance stat viewing.
Hell no, keep them private. It's like the Community I was a part of since beta disappeared and was replaced by A stats are God crowd, If your stats aren't such and such, shut up and just leave, you are ruining our game play.

Don't even think it can't happen here. WOT was one of the better communities I've been in at the start. Before the game went into beta, during beta and the 1st part of the live release, much like this one. Now, well it's sad to see what is has come down too.

it's cute that you think suddenly the old people just left/dissipeared

it's like in other games how when ever things are going bad or different then how people want suddenly they start saying all the kids are here now...

People in a super competitive game suddenly dissipearing when thigns get even more competitive? Sounds reasonable...

[Dark Fury]

I don't mind the Stats. But I think they should either be private only or viewable by "friends". A little competition and bragging rights with your lance mates is always fun

[Bloody Moon]

Dark Fury, on 13 July 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

I don't mind the Stats. But I think they should either be private only or viewable by "friends". A little competition and bragging rights with your lance mates is always fun

Sometimes stat whipping some loud-mouthed player can be equally fun.

[DraigUK]

I like stats they give you an indication of where your game is weak/strong and where to work on it.

[Quasimoto]

I think they should have stats, they should be public with no option to turning them off.
I think eventually this game is going to have 1v1 death match and if that is the case then a win/loss record is going to be a given.

The people who don't want stats remind me of parents who want to award little Johnny with a trophy for coming in dead last in the race.
"Oh little Johnny, you tried so hard, you really won" Emmm NO, little Johnny got his arse handed to him by Debbie and he LOST.
Deal with it.

Sorry to disappoint you boys and girls of the forum but your whole life is pretty much measured by and surrounded by metrics.
Whether it's your SAT scores, your performance on the job your girlfriends evaluation of your performance in the sack or how long your PPC is.....We are all measured and I agree that it can become annoying at times dealing with Stat Monkeys.
However good news....I have a solution. Kill them on the Battlefield. How's that for an easy button?

Thanassis79, on 12 June 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

It doesn't matter, it's only a filter to show who is a bragger or mentally challenged.

I like to have a good brag once in a while...you know the ones sitting around with your buddies and bragging on the 8 point buck you got.
As far as mentally challenged....some more than others but honestly I put you at the top of the list.
You will probably be the one in the Atlas trying to hide behind an Urbies skirt.
See you on the Battlefield little Johnny.

[Dozer]

Faceless Priest, on 13 July 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

because they actualy have some input, especialy for group management.

-what size mech they use the most? shows what they have most experience for, helps with grouping
-total time played, shows you experience in the seat, if you think this dosn't matter...wow
-damage taken/damage done, it's a good understanding of weither the person is actualy being efficent or not, as well as more complicated issues. It also helps you understand if your doing soemthing wrong, like if your damage taken is way way higher then damage done, you'll know that you either arn't giving as much as you are reciving, or in the case of smaller mechs that you are failing to engage/avoid correctly
-points captured, shows that you actually understand how to play, not just be a dur dur kill them moron
-level/xp shows their experience and such, this will matter...a lot, if someoen is way higher then your lvl and has more time playing he will have better gear and skills. Does that mean he will stomp you? no, does that mean it will effect how well he does? Uh...yeah
-# of mechs, :shrugs: this is mostly to help with grouping, knowing if someone can fully go for dropshp, and tells you if they are a 1 mech wonder, but for the most part i think this i just threw up for the hell of it.

Ok so at least somewhere to start.

Assuming that these represent a set of variables to be used to measure performance (based on the entire premise of this thread) are you intending to conduct correlational research i.e. do not (or at least try not to) influence any variables but only measure them and look for relations (correlations) OR experimental research i.e. manipulate some of the variables and then measure the effects of this manipulation on the other variables?

Also, do you believe the variable measurement should be nominal, ordinal, interval or ratio?