156 replies to this topic

[BlindProphet]

Frostiken, on 13 June 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Nothing good has ever come out of stat-tracking that is viewable by the public, and very little comes out of visible stats at all.

So father son bonding over baseball stats isn't a good thing? People enjoying themselves over fantasy football/baseball/golf/etc is not a good thing?

Don't make silly statements like this.

Theres a lot of good that comes out of public stats even in online games. Very little good comes from hiding this information. Hiding the information does not stop jerks from being jerks. People seem not to realize this for some reason. They also don't realize bad players and meh players are going to be easy to spot regardless of if stats are available publicly or not...you're still going to be mocked...stop worrying about it and let those of us who enjoy stats enjoy our stats.

[Daverex]

I don't see the problem with stats. Personally, I like to look back and see how many enemies I've crippled and left to gimp away and die somewhere else, hopefully to something humiliating like a small laser

[Frostiken]

blindprophet, on 13 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

So father son bonding over baseball stats isn't a good thing? People enjoying themselves over fantasy football/baseball/golf/etc is not a good thing?

Don't make silly statements like this.

Theres a lot of good that comes out of public stats even in online games. Very little good comes from hiding this information. Hiding the information does not stop jerks from being jerks. People seem not to realize this for some reason. They also don't realize bad players and meh players are going to be easy to spot regardless of if stats are available publicly or not...you're still going to be mocked...stop worrying about it and let those of us who enjoy stats enjoy our stats.

I wish I could dislike your comment, simply for 1) implying that your first few sentences were relevant here whatsoever, and 2) everything else you said which were just blanket statements without a shred of logical argument to be had. You just sort of said words you hoped would combine into a rational point to argue against.

All you have to do is play a stats-centric game, a private-stats game, and a non-stats game and the difference in pub play is incredible.

Batlefield 3 plays like complete *** because people are chasing KDR / SPM all the time, people constantly jump teams, nobody works together because teamwork slows you down, and most servers are designed to cram you into whatever maps give the most kills per minute. IF you bother to post anything on the nightmare that are the forums, the first thing people will do is check your stats and than say "I have 5k more kills in tanks than you, so **** you you ******* piece of **** QQing noob".

Some of my best multiplayer experiences were to be had in Natural-Selection, where you had a minimal scoreboard and no stats, so there was no motivation for anyone to chase kills or not work together.

The best pub experience are in games with no stats whatsoever, and a minimal scoreboard. Even a game like T:A with private stats has people playing selfishly just to top the scoreboard.

Edited by Frostiken, 13 June 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[UncleKulikov]

Frostiken, on 13 June 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Your experience is limited. Halo exudes stats, and it's completely tolerable.

I don't think your points apply to MWO.

There shouldn't be team swapping, similar to WOT.
There isn't a respawn, so kills per minute is much less important the win ratio, which emphasizes teamwork over individual performance.
People will refer to external sources for stat tracking if the game doesn't support it, and refer to such stats regardless of game.
The mech classes have significant weaknesses, requiring teamwork in order to be successful.
Players have levels, which should be displayed to inform opponents what equipment would likely be in play.
Multiple roles are rewarded, so people who hunt kills can fill that role and others can fill supporting roles.
If a whole team is made up of kill hunters, they will be beaten by an equivalent team that applies teamwork.
There is no need to care or get upset over taunts about relative statistics.
There are plenty of people who don't care about relative statistics, which you can clan up with. Like me.
There are people who want a persistent record of their game career to match their EXP progression. Like me.
There are people who would use their statistics to refine their gameplay and improve their skills in an active manner. Punishing them because of other jerks online by removing stats isn't fair.
Stats tracked can improve teamwork, by showing match EXP. A scout that is persistent in spotting and gets assists will accumulate a large amount of experience and thus be on the top of the board.

[GHQCommander]

I think there will be as many for as against on this.

But those against, why not just not look at the stats, pretend they don't exist

[Roland]

If you don't care about stats, then don't look at the stats.

[UncleKulikov]

Roland, on 13 June 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

If you don't care about stats, then don't look at the stats.

I think we will need to be more convincing than this in order to change minds.

[hornet331]

Frostiken, on 13 June 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

I wish I could dislike your comment, simply for 1) implying that your first few sentences were relevant here whatsoever, and 2) everything else you said which were just blanket statements without a shred of logical argument to be had. You just sort of said words you hoped would combine into a rational point to argue against.

All you have to do is play a stats-centric game, a private-stats game, and a non-stats game and the difference in pub play is incredible.

Batlefield 3 plays like complete *** because people are chasing KDR / SPM all the time, people constantly jump teams, nobody works together because teamwork slows you down, and most servers are designed to cram you into whatever maps give the most kills per minute. IF you bother to post anything on the nightmare that are the forums, the first thing people will do is check your stats and than say "I have 5k more kills in tanks than you, so **** you you ******* piece of **** QQing noob".

Some of my best multiplayer experiences were to be had in Natural-Selection, where you had a minimal scoreboard and no stats, so there was no motivation for anyone to chase kills or not work together.

The best pub experience are in games with no stats whatsoever, and a minimal scoreboard. Even a game like T:A with private stats has people playing selfishly just to top the scoreboard.

Thats not the problem of stats, but what people play the game... ever played BF2? It pretty much had the same stat tracking as BF3, the only difference is that BF2 hadn't all the cod kiddies in it and wasn't catered to them in the frist place.
That aside, it seem people think you can rack up your stats easily in games with auto match making...

To pad you dmg per battle you actually need to shot other, same goes for other things like kills, captures, defences, spots, assists or even staying alive.

People who only try to pad one stat have to neglet all others and will usual also score a bad winrate, prime example for that are suicide scouts in WoT, while they have high spot rate, **** damage, and a survival time that is half of the normal player. Same goes for people that only go for kills, especial those who only wait for the killing shot, they have crap dmg/battle, no defence/cap points but a high kill rate.

You know how you actually pad your stats in WoT.. by playing the damn game, killing some people, damaging some people and going for the objective to win the damn round. Thats always my main goal in any game.. to win the round.. I don't care how its done, as long it is done.

Most arguments here are invalide since you can't apply them in MWO, you can't switch teams, you can't join the team with the better starting point, you can't create your own matches to farm points and so on. The only way you probably could pad your stats is if clan battles are available, make a fake clan and fight it over and over again, but that would requite multi boxing and also is probably against the eula.

So yeah the only choice you have is to play the game and actually win games and be god at it to get good stats, even when you have to play with friends, and as some already mentioned here you can easily counter this by providing different stats for solo play and lance/clan play.

Again more stats are better then less.

[razorkill12]

Yes there will be stat tracinkg. Will it be like WOT? who knows. Is the game gonna alows mods like WOT? probably not, so XVM mod is out.

I think that I have average to decent stats in WOT. I also think that stats alone don't make the player. They give you a generalization on the player in the game, but the only real way to know how good a player is is to play with them. I look at WOT and never cared much about stats in other games I played prior to this. In BF3, K/D stats seem to tell alot about how a good a player is. If people saw my stats there, they would say I suck...

Bottom line is play the game to have fun, always try to learn and get better, and don't be a noob.

[JxP]

I like the stats being there. I also don't worry about my KDR in any game

[Rejarial Galatan]

ElKobold, on 12 June 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Why waste time? There's reason to personally test a recruit if he shows some promise. Stats help you to filter out terrible players right away.



You can't. Competitive environment means that you don't play just for fun, but rather to win.

You may, however, create a second account (since the game is free) and use it when you are in play-for-lulz mood.


Thank you for the explanation, Captain Obvious

Good player won't mess-up his stats by messing around every now and then.



And you have just proved my point.

And btw, proper way to play a game is winning. Unless it's a drinking game.

no. You are wrong. The proper way to play the game is the way that makes the player happy. If all you do is focus on the win, you lose. Maybe not the match but you lose all the same. It is why i quit pvp on wow. Got to focused on winning. Made me beyond unhappy. Decided i was happier focusing on just having fun and not giving a crap if i won or lost a match. Guess what happened! Began winning more because i was relaxed and didnt have the: gotta win spectre hanging over me.

[Melcyna]

Such worked for you, but you both fell into the same hole...

you both assume that both of the path you took are the proper one...

in his case he consider the proper way is by winning which is his view, and in your case you consider it by having fun...

only problem is, just as his view isn't exactly accurate when applied to a range of other ppl, you can't seriously believe that you can tell someone else that your method is the proper way to play the game because some ppl are naturally much more competitive than others and far more driven.

The diversity can range from someone to whom winning is the whole point, and then to others where the fun they gather is derived from either the process or the end result or both, then to someone like you who may not care win or lose, and finally to someone who TOTALLY don't care at all of a win or lose but drew fun from the game in other ways (warning: may involve healthy dosage of trolling others).

UncleKulikov, on 13 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

I think we will need to be more convincing than this in order to change minds.

What's the point, essentially some ppl got burned by the community of some games where stats exist, and they hated it attributing the stat to their behavior, instead of realizing the obvious that these jackass act like one because THEY ARE A JACKASS.

Welcome to internet, where the more popular something is the BIGGER the chance that you will face more jackass inside the game. A stat oriented jackass is still a jackass, it's just one of the type.

Someone previously mentioned NS for example, NS had a smaller community than BF for obvious reason, the smaller and tighter community plus the gameplay style that REQUIRES players to work together or die horribly is pretty much the whole point why NS had smaller chance of running into one of the jackass than in BF or CoD.

It's the same *** **** reason why Arma had less chance of turning these players than BF does....

But guess what happens when Arma gets much more popular and an influx of new players stream into the game....

BAAMM... jackass left, jackass right... welcome to the world.

Edited by Melcyna, 14 June 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[Eagle vFv]

Not only do I want stats it would be nice to break stats down by mech as well. To see how well a certain config performs would be the point to having this. Not sure if there's a way to track damage as well but tracking is very nice for many many purposes.

Each match would hopefully break down how each player performed in the particular "role" they played since we are shooting for role warfare.

End of match results:
Scout - How many mechs you scouted and who
Damage - How many mechs you damaged (how much damage?) and who
Kills - How many mechs you deal the killing blow to and who

These are the things that help people see where they are excelling at and where they may need to improve. Granted not all of the stats should or could go public but to the individual player it is nice to have.

[Sadnebula]

UncleKulikov, on 12 June 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

What's exactly the problem with persistent stats? People talking about them?

I have watched stats turn a good community into a train wreck. players get on the forums and bash others,
claim you are too stupid to have a view point, name calling and it just goes on. Why? because of stats.
This also goes on in the game itself, mods now show other's stats. " we don't have a chance our tier X has
a 36 % win ratio," "You suck, are a noob and shouldn't even be allowed to play that tank." It is nasty what stats can
do when some players use them to further their position on forums and bully others in game.

I like my stats, it gives me a yardstick to use after so many matches in certain platforms. Do i want them public,
no. Even though I've been spared much of what I wrote earlier, I've seen them bring out the worse in players with them being public knowledge.

Edited by Sadnebula, 14 June 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Dexterm]

Im for stat tracking but it can be a double edged sword. It can give you an idea of a players skill lvl but you have to be careful you dont judge players only by how many kills they have or how many DFAs they have or some other arbitrary stat. Some people like to just pad their stats and are useless as far as helping the team. Play with someone before you judge them

[Melcyna]

Sadnebula, on 14 June 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I have watched stats turn a good community into a train wreck. players get on the forums and bash others,
claim you are too stupid to have a view point, name calling and it just goes on. Why? because of stats.
This also goes on in the game itself, mods now show other's stats. " we don't have a chance our tier X has
a 36 % win ratio," "You suck, are a noob and shouldn't even be allowed to play that tank." It is nasty what stats can
do when some players use them to further their position on forums and bully others in game.

I like my stats, it gives me a yardstick to use after so many matches in certain platforms. Do i want them public,
no. Even though I've been spared much of what I wrote earlier, I've seen them bring out the worse in players with them being public knowledge.

Ppl basically fear that this brings the worse in players, well guess what, the very same players that will use these stats in that manner and wreck the community when allowed will inflict the very same division without stat except now there's no number to quote, so they all will just fling theories and their 'PERSONAL EXPERIENCE' as it's often called into the argument.

A jackass doesn't turn docile and dormant without stat, he will still be a jackass except he can't throw numbers around anymore... he'll simply use whatever else he had in his inventory to throw instead which includes anything from other players experience (whether they like being mentioned or not) down to IMAGINARY ideas... (thankfully most ppl r not smart enough to construct their 'deception' well).

By the same logic, we should've taken down forum as well then since you know... the forum is also populated by a fair chunk of people who once exposed with it will have their 'dark side' apparently brought out of them (what a load of bullshit, if someone act like a jackass, in the forum, in the game, or what not then that is exactly what he is, internet or no, he just simply hide it well when he is not shielded with anonymity)

[Gozer]

Melcyna, on 14 June 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

A jackass doesn't turn docile and dormant without stat, he will still be a jackass except he can't throw numbers around anymore... he'll simply use whatever else he had in his inventory to throw instead which includes anything from other players experience (whether they like being mentioned or not) down to IMAGINARY ideas... (thankfully most ppl r not smart enough to construct their 'deception' well).

By the same logic, we should've taken down forum as well then since you know... the forum is also populated by a fair chunk of people who once exposed with it will have their 'dark side' apparently brought out of them (what a load of bullshit, if someone act like a jackass, in the forum, in the game, or what not then that is exactly what he is, internet or no, he just simply hide it well when he is not shielded with anonymity)

Exactly. Well said.

[Frostiken]

People aren't going to play for stats if stats don't exist. Ipso facto, stats do more harm than not having stats.

[Sierra19]

I have no problem with stat tracking. It is one easy, quick, and good way that devs can check balancing within the game. If a mech in a particular weight class is outperforming it's peers, then things can be adjusted accordingly. If there is no stat tracking, people will come up with a way to do it anyway, through a program or spreadsheet they devise. It's a good tool to help yourself also. Whether you choose to become a slave to your stats is up to you.

[Frostiken]

Sierra19, on 14 June 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Whether you choose to become a slave to your stats is up to you.

Hardly. People become addicted to that kind of crap whether they're fully aware of it at the time or not.

Edited by Frostiken, 14 June 2012 - 04:21 PM.