1555 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Tarzilman, on 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Like we say in germany, there're no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

Chronojam, on 19 October 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

After UI 4.2

You mean like that?

[Warge]

Wintersdark, on 18 October 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

I know a match where only half the players on my team are in Phoenix Mechs is a rare match, and it's not at all uncommon for my entire team to be in phoenix mechs.

You just forgot 1 fact: some of refunders just stoped playing and stoped posting. And lots of newcomers bought PP. What it proves? Nothing.
In my games: 1/3, 1/4, 0 PP's Mechs. What it proves? Nothing.
We have no real stats about player base.

But fact: 1/2 of Founders quit this game. And not so many new names: the same players from game to game.

UPD. I got refund. Right now I can re-buy PP pack. But don't want do this. Why? How do you think?

Edited by Warge, 19 October 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Tarzilman]

Quote

But fact: 1/2 of Founders quit tbis game.

What it proves? Just that there've been many impatient players.
And they'll act the same way in the next game on and on until they realize, that some content needs time, some promises are made to early and Chris Roberts can NOT perform magic...

[Warge]

Tarzilman, on 19 October 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

What it proves? Just that there've been many impatient players.

Or some devs broke too many promises.

Tarzilman, on 19 October 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

and Chris Roberts can NOT perform magic...

I prefer X-Universe: they doing magic.

Edited by Warge, 19 October 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Chronojam]

Tarzilman, on 19 October 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

What it proves? Just that there've been many impatient players.
And they'll act the same way in the next game on and on until they realize, that some content needs time, some promises are made to early and Chris Roberts can NOT perform magic...

That's a stupid conclusion considering most said it was because they game ceased to be fun, they lost faith in the developers after the January-February community warfare window came and went (we're most of the way through October, need I remind you?), and all the organized groups got fed up with the stagnant metagame (2PPC1Gauss supremacy for over half a year) and difficulty in keeping group-games going because it moved from 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 man teams to 2-3-4-8 and 2-3-4-12 which is unsustainable.

But, no, you're right. They must have just been impatient. Which reminds me,

Tarzilman, on 19 October 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Does anybody know, if there were also ingame icons to be delivered with the PP? Like those founders icons?

Stop being so impatient!

[Wintersdark]

Warge, on 19 October 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

You just forgot 1 fact: some of refunders just stoped playing and stoped posting. And lots of newcomers bought PP. What it proves? Nothing.
In my games: 1/3, 1/4, 0 PP's Mechs. What it proves? Nothing.
We have no real stats about player base.

But fact: 1/2 of Founders quit this game. And not so many new names: the same players from game to game.

UPD. I got refund. Right now I can re-buy PP pack. But don't want do this. Why? How do you think?

1/2 of Founders quit this game? I suspect that's one of those statistics (read: made up on the spot). With that said, I dn't contest that number - I'd expect it to be something like that. Not because of anything in particular, but rather because it's very normal for people to wander off after a year+ of playing a game.

And, sure, I don't doubt some people who got refunds stopped playing. But the fact remains that there are a whole freaking LOT of phoenix mechs out there. LOTS. Not everyone still uses them in every match, of course, but clearly a majority of random players who are still playing bought the PP.

And that's the key point: That they sold lots of phoenix packs to the people who are still playing. Clearly, people who got refunds are a tiny fraction of the total sales, or there wouldn't have been so bloody many (P) mechs out and about.

[Tarzilman]

Chronojam, on 19 October 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

yadda yadda yadda

I read all this stuff many times before and you're one of those persons who wrote this stuff many times before. What's your problem? You're ignoring a basic statement in my post that should've told you, that I KNOW, that in the past ETA's were promised much to early.

Quote

Stop being so impatient!

I just wrote down a simple question because I didn't find information to it. That has nothing to do with impatience.

[Warge]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

And, sure, I don't doubt some people who got refunds stopped playing. But the fact remains that there are a whole freaking LOT of phoenix mechs out there. LOTS. Not everyone still uses them in every match, of course, but clearly a majority of random players who are still playing bought the PP.

Lots. No. Even LOTS bought Founder's packs. Where are they now?..

[Wintersdark]

Warge, on 19 October 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I prefer X-Universe: they doing magic.

I will agree here; I'm so excited for X-Rebirth. The X games are freaking amazing, I've put hundreds of hours into them.

Warge, on 19 October 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Lots. No. Even LOTS bought Founder's packs. Where are they now?..

*shrugs* I'm not seeing your point? Yes, lots of Founders left, after the games been around for a year or so. And? A year from now, I bet half the PP buyers will be off doing other things too. This is normal.

[Warge]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

1/2 of Founders quit this game? I suspect that's one of those statistics (read: made up on the spot).

Official PGI's statment, man...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

1/2 of Founders quit this game?

Actually either Bryan or Russ gave us that statistic.

Only they went glass half full and stated "Half of the founders are still playing".

So yes, half of the founders have quit.

Also, if you think about who the founders were...they are basically the most hardcore of the hardcore Mechwarrior players and probably the people likely to take the most abuse to get their Mechwarrior fix.

If half of them have quit, the odds on this game surviving long term is very small.

[Wintersdark]

Warge, on 19 October 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

Official PGI's statment, man...

Fair enough. As I said in my first post, I didn't dispute it.

That's normal. People leave, it's been a year. They get bored, go play other games. Having half your Founders still here a year later is something to brag about - particularly given how many were in Closed Beta. Closed Beta's have very high attrition rates.

[Warge]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

*shrugs* I'm not seeing your point? Yes, lots of Founders left, after the games been around for a year or so. And? A year from now, I bet half the PP buyers will be off doing other things too. This is normal.

You trust PGI's promises? Good to you. I'm no more and have BIG reasons to do so: ECM, ghost heat, ghost delay, 3PV, coolant flush, ect.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Fair enough. As I said in my first post, I didn't dispute it.

That's normal. People leave, it's been a year. They get bored, go play other games. Having half your Founders still here a year later is something to brag about - particularly given how many were in Closed Beta. Closed Beta's have very high attrition rates.

Normal people leave.

Casual people leave.

People who throw a decent amount of money at the CONCEPT of a game, they don't normally leave before the game gets out of beta.

[Warge]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 19 October 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Only they went glass half full and stated "Half of the founders are still playing".

Not "still playing"... "still visiting" from time to time.

Edited by Warge, 19 October 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Warge, on 19 October 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Not "still playing"... still visiting from time to time.

I just don't get how anyone can spin half of the founders leaving before leaving beta being a good indicator?

That's terrible.

I mean these guys PAID money for something that didn't exist, they basically gave away their money for a bunch of words.

Someone who is willing to do that is normally in for the long haul and it would take a lot to get them to leave.

You'd expect those kinds of people to at least stay until release.

But they couldn't even get them to stay through beta.

What does that say? Nothing good.

[Wintersdark]

Warge, on 19 October 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

You trust PGI's promises? Good to you. I'm no more and have BIG reasons to do so: ECM, ghost heat, ghost delay, 3PV, coolant flush, ect.

I really think we're having two different conversations here. I can't help but think you're ranting about PGI's evilness, as if I'm somehow defending them.

Why do you think I "trust PGI's promises"? Where did I mention ECM, ghost heat, 3pv, coolant, etc? The only thing I've been saying in this thread is that they sold metric *** loads of Phoenix Packs, and there obviously weren't so many refunds. I made no comment about the state of the game, or about "promises".

Clearly, they're not hurting too bad if they can sell so many of these packs, so no matter how upset you may be (and, to be clear, I've never said that people don't have a valid reason to be upset, particularly founders) they're clearly not closing up shop any time soon.

I'd happily place a bet that they'd blast past their PP sales in less than half the time if they released a Clan Mech pack this Spring.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Why do you think I "trust PGI's promises"?

Do you see that big red star under your name?

That's why. It says "I don't care how bad PGI is messing up this game, I will throw away my hard earned money at them in hopes that they will turn things around".

Everyone with one of those little Phoenix Project icon's is not allowed to say anything bad about PGI, because you guys are supporting them knowing how poorly they are developing this game.

[Wintersdark]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 19 October 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Do you see that big red star under your name?

That's why. It says "I don't care how bad PGI is messing up this game, I will throw away my hard earned money at them in hopes that they will turn things around".

Everyone with one of those little Phoenix Project icon's is not allowed to say anything bad about PGI, because you guys are supporting them knowing how poorly they are developing this game.

No, that red star says:
"I love this game, and have lots of fun playing it. As such, I'm supporting it." It's really that simple.

I'm not relying on them "fulfilling promises" or "turning anything around". I'm happy with the game as it is, and it's continuing to improve (ghost heat notwithstanding). So many of these things people complain about? 3pv? Coolant? I'm sure these really **** off a tiny subset of players, and chased away some Founders who feel lied to - that's a valid argument. But while I feel many founder's disgruntlement has valid causes, I don't share that disgruntlement. I enjoy the game, and have enjoyed the game for the past year. There are things I hate (ghost heat), things I don't like but don't care a lot about (3pv), but in the grand scheme of things to me these are terribly minor. Coolant doesn't hurt the game at all from my perspective - it changes it a bit, but it's not like it dumbs the game down. 3pv? So long as 3pv isn't objectively better in combat, I don't care. I don't want to use it, but I don't care if people "peek" a bit with it (I personally think a little camera drone isn't unrealistic tech; you can buy a remote control camera drone in 7-11 right now for $30).

These things, they really **** off some people, but many of us? We don't care. It means these "horrible problems" destroying the game aren't, for us at least.

And yeah, I *am* a pretty hardcore player. I can't put substantial hours in, but I've been around consistently since the start of open beta. If I could go back in time, I'd have bought a founders pack too. I didn't then, because I understand how game development works and I don't ever buy into a game that doesn't exist yet - you never know what you're going to get until you get it.

Anyways, If I enjoy something, I support it hoping I continue to enjoy it. Thus, I've clearly not "thrown money away" - I didn't spend that $80 (actually, $110, sabre pack too) because of what I hope MWO to become. It wasn't an investment, it was a purchase, and I'm very happy with what I got for my money - because I'm having fun with my shiny new mechs.

Should I stop having fun? i'll stop buying stuff, and I'll stop visiting here. *shrugs* I can't see that happening soon, though. I still love this game to bits.

It's really that simple.

[Warge]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

It's really that simple.

There were so many talks about this "simple" that I'm tired to explain this again...

Edited by Warge, 19 October 2013 - 09:30 PM.