1555 replies to this topic

[1Sascha]

Quote

Do any of the Pheonix mechs come with ECM, so we can run them as Unseen?

LOL.

Getting OT here, but can someone fill me on the status of that whole legal dilemma?

Those Phoenix-mechs are all "Unseen" aren't they? I'm pretty sure about the ShadowHawk and the Locust. If they can get into the game, what about beloved classics/iconic Mechs such as the Warhammer of the Marauder?

BattleTech-wiki states the legal disputes had been settled in 2009, but from my understanding, that's not *really* the case. Or is it?

So what's the deal here?



S.

[WolvesX]

I just asked for a refund on my overlord.

This is a sad day for me.

[Tolkien]

Same here, and the founders package to boot if the situation isn't sorted by launch.

3PV and the lying prior to sneaking it in in the dark of night is just the let down that put me over the edge.

Visa has forced vendors I deal with to eat thousands of dollars in forced refund for screw ups/ feature bait and switches much smaller than this.

[PoLaR]

WolvesX, on 23 August 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

I just asked for a refund on my overlord.

This is a sad day for me.

But, whyyy?

[stjobe]

1Sascha, on 23 August 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

Getting OT here, but can someone fill me on the status of that whole legal dilemma?

Those Phoenix-mechs are all "Unseen" aren't they? I'm pretty sure about the ShadowHawk and the Locust. If they can get into the game, what about beloved classics/iconic Mechs such as the Warhammer of the Marauder?

BattleTech-wiki states the legal disputes had been settled in 2009, but from my understanding, that's not *really* the case. Or is it?

So what's the deal here?

Somewhat simplified:

The original BattleTech used imagery from three Manga series: Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram. They used these images under a license with the Japanese company that owned the rights. Later, another Japanese company disputed the rights for overseas licensing against the company that had licensed the images to FASA, and won in a Japanese court. Therefore, the images weren't legal to use anymore, and those 'mechs became the Unseen.

Later, Catalyst Game Labs re-negotiated rights to some of the Unseen (the ones from Crusher Joe and Dougram), and these became the Reseen - and that's the 'mechs that are now in the Phoenix Project (minus the Scorpion, Griffin, and Wolverine).

(I note that the Marauder has been added to the Sarna page listing the Unseen - as far as I'm aware, the Marauder is a Glaug Battle Pod from Macross, and I seriously doubt it is Unseen).

The rights to the Macross designs are currently owned by Harmony Gold (fie!) and they are a litigious bunch of [children born out of wedlock], and seem to be both unwilling to license the images, and eager to sue anyone using images coming even remotely close.

Edited by stjobe, 23 August 2013 - 03:23 AM.

[Moku]

Some billionaire fan should just buy harmony gold out and get this over with.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Troll kim 80, on 23 August 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

I just bought the Overlordpack

October 15th seems like ages away...

This is my problem, Im not really a 'investing' type, I buy something to get something. Buying something to get something later (especially two months later) I would rather spend $30 now for a single hero mech than $40 now for two of them and four standards later even though comparatively the propho is a substantially better deal.

That being said if a hero urbanmech or hero orion that inexplicably has jump jets or ecm pops up in september, propho can kiss my ***

[Nekki Basara]

Flying Blind, on 22 August 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Well the original Battledroids was released in 1984 so ok not REALLY 30 years old but I think we can call it close enough.

I am aware what year I was born in, yes.

stjobe, on 23 August 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

Somewhat simplified:

You got this kind of backwards. The sarna page is accurate but lacking in detail.

Edited by Nekki Basara, 23 August 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[stjobe]

Nekki Basara, on 23 August 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

You got this kind of backwards. The sarna page is accurate but lacking in detail.

I love the lavish details you've provided in your objection to my admittedly simplified account of the whole sordid mess. Makes it really easy to follow what the hell you're wanting to correct or exemplify.

[Nekki Basara]

Well I was being charitable. The entire thing was off and I didn't feel like typing out a huge correction. TL;DR version is thus:

12 Macross designs cause legal problems as a reaction to other legal action taken by FASA. ALL anime mechs + Victor Music Industries contract designs are "Unseen". Replacement artwork done in-house is "Reseen" regardless of legal status. Legal status clarified in Japanese court means the international situation is very very messy.

This is lacking a huge pile of detail, and the specifics of the legal situation really require it all for a full understanding.

[StandingCow]

I didn't post it in here yet but... yea..refund request was sent yesterday.

This was one of the hardest things I have had to do in a while... I want it so bad, but I cannot support this game until they go back on this whole 3PV thing, and somehow earn my trust back...

[Commander Kobold]

StandingCow, on 23 August 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

I didn't post it in here yet but... yea..refund request was sent yesterday.

This was one of the hardest things I have had to do in a while... I want it so bad, but I cannot support this game until they go back on this whole 3PV thing, and somehow earn my trust back...

Odd I just bought my overlord pack

[stjobe]

Nekki Basara, on 23 August 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Well I was being charitable. The entire thing was off and I didn't feel like typing out a huge correction. TL;DR version is thus:

12 Macross designs cause legal problems as a reaction to other legal action taken by FASA. ALL anime mechs + Victor Music Industries contract designs are "Unseen". Replacement artwork done in-house is "Reseen" regardless of legal status. Legal status clarified in Japanese court means the international situation is very very messy.

This is lacking a huge pile of detail, and the specifics of the legal situation really require it all for a full understanding.

Well, as a summary I don't think I'm too far off, however if someone wants to go into the (myriad and convoluted) details of the case(s) there is an excellent blog post about it here: http://www.terrania....ech-second.html.

Edited by stjobe, 23 August 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Nekki Basara]

You know, you could have just posted that the first time.... it's not what you posted at all. It only explains the Macross mecha though.

[C E Dwyer]

Belorion, on 17 August 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I don't think HG is a rational business making rational decisions. They would rather get all their money by suing people than by making legitimate business deals.



I actually think FD might do those things some justice. Did you see Bishop Steiner's take on the Ost mechs? His Ostscout is particularly good...

I didn't its pretty Neat..

[C E Dwyer]

Alex Warden, on 22 August 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

i know alot of people cancelled their purchase...wonder if the bar has the ability to go backwards?

I've not cancelled mine yet, the pheonix isn't out until october, but its going to happen if 3PV is still in game without seperate que's at launch

[1Sascha]

If sarna is right, I guess we won't be getting the Marauder or the Warhammer then - well, at least not the original designs..

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen

Quote

On 25 June, 2013, Piranha Games announced four "unseen" mechs to be included in MechWarrior Online: The Locust, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, and the Battlemaster. The designs more closely resemble their original artwork than the "reseen" re-designs.
Shortly after the return of the "unseen" BattleMechs was announced, the BattleTech: 25 Years of Art & Fiction PDF was pulled from circulation. Managing editor Randall Bills made a statement on Catalyst Game Labs' website on August 10th, 2009 explaining the move. An error was made in negotiating the distribution rights for some of the images. Twelve Unseen images, those originating from Macross, were again pulled from circulation and will remain unseen, due to their exclusive distribution rights (within the United States) belonging to another company (Harmony Gold). Whether or not these images will be licensed or purchased in the future remains to be seen. The tone of the article was doubtful.^[1]

Quote

Warhammer
Warhammer IIC :Reseen under a new agreement

*snip*

Marauder
Marauder II
Marauder IIC :Reseen under a new agreement

How hard can it be to re-negotiate those rights? Or is this a new type of business venture I haven't heard about yet? You know: Acquire rights to something halfway popular and instead of licensing it out (or working with it yourself), sue everyone who produces something similar or vaguely similar.

S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 23 August 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Nekki Basara]

They are actually doing things with it. Robotech Tactics is out soonish.

[Grimlox]

I've got my Overlord package. Most of the others I play with have either also purchased the package or are considering it. Not a single one of them cares about 3pv though. Mind you they play the game not the forums so that's likely why. They just played the game and never followed what may or may not have been promised on the forums or twitter or facebook months ago.

I wouldn't be surprised if their thoughts on the matter were the silent majority. Honestly as long as we're having fun I guess it really doesn't matter.

[Rashhaverak]

Played the game yesterday with twenty or so of my closest friends and wouldn't you believe it was just as much fun as it has been for the last year. This game kicks butt and continues to entertain me every time I load it up, for hours at a time. I bought Overlord without hesitation and would do it again.