1555 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Vaderman, on 30 October 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

My example of the Stalker was simply to point out that people are out there still trying to go against the spirit of the game by ATTEMPTING to exploit it. I didn't say it was successful, but it was an obvious attempt on that pilots part to one shot other mechs.

The only people who are upset about ghost heat are people who ran in 4 man groups consisting of all Stalker 3Fs boating PPCs.

I wonder who that would include... We better call the Hardy boys to help solve this case!

[Cimarb]

Vaderman, on 30 October 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

No, what it fixed was game breaking alpha strikes on builds that used min/maxing to break the spirit of the game like you mentioned.

My idea of a brawl is using fire and maneuver, terrain, and other real world examples to take down another mech, i.e skill.

Some peoples idea of a brawl is to get in your face and take you down in one alpha strike. That's not a brawl, thats boring and cheesy.

My example of the Stalker was simply to point out that people are out there still trying to go against the spirit of the game by ATTEMPTING to exploit it. I didn't say it was successful, but it was an obvious attempt on that pilots part to one shot other mechs.

What DID ghost heat fix? What alpha strike builds are you referring to? After you list the builds you are speaking of, I would be happy to explain a better, more consistent and user-friendly way that it could have been fixed, or dispute that the build was "fixed" by ghost heat at all.

[Heffay]

Cimarb, on 30 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

What DID ghost heat fix? What alpha strike builds are you referring to? After you list the builds you are speaking of, I would be happy to explain a better, more consistent and user-friendly way that it could have been fixed, or dispute that the build was "fixed" by ghost heat at all.

5 PPC Stalker-3Fs.

Yes, they can exist by staggering their fire, but that essentially means unless they are a lucky shot or are aiming at a mech who doesn't move after taking 20 pts of damage to a component doesn't instantly move, they aren't putting 50 points into one component simultaneously.

And it could have been fixed by having large & small hardpoints and redoing the hardpoints for all the mechs. But eh. No biggie. This works too.

[Chronojam]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

The only people who are upset about ghost heat are people who ran in 4 man groups consisting of all Stalker 3Fs boating PPCs.

I wonder who that would include... We better call the Hardy boys to help solve this case!

This is one hell of a blatant lie and an attempt to discredit people pointing out that Ghost Heat totally screws over SRM builds, messes with LRM builds, targets 2xAC\20 while leaving 2PPC1Gauss alone, and causes abnormal chainfire behavior for the AC\2.

Why are you harping on PPC boating when it never was a problem, no organized groups actually did it, and the #1 best use of PPCs were taking just a couple and mating them to a Gauss Rifle which could be done on several chassis several of which could jump?

You're incredibly dishonest to try to pretend there were gangs of 6PPC Stalkers running around, and I'm directly going to say you're a liar when you say those hypothetical made-up groups are the only people upset about ghost heat.

[Cimarb]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

5 PPC Stalker-3Fs.

Yes, they can exist by staggering their fire, but that essentially means unless they are a lucky shot or are aiming at a mech who doesn't move after taking 20 pts of damage to a component doesn't instantly move, they aren't putting 50 points into one component simultaneously.

And it could have been fixed by having large & small hardpoints and redoing the hardpoints for all the mechs. But eh. No biggie. This works too.

Is that the only build?...

The increase to PPC heat ruined that build far more than ghost heat ever did. Like I said, a very simple adjustment using the existing rules is far better than an arbitrary one pulled out of a grimy lake.

[Cimarb]

Chronojam, on 30 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

This is one hell of a blatant lie and an attempt to discredit people pointing out that Ghost Heat totally screws over SRM builds, messes with LRM builds, targets 2xAC\20 while leaving 2PPC1Gauss alone, and causes abnormal chainfire behavior for the AC\2.

Why are you harping on PPC boating when it never was a problem, no organized groups actually did it, and the #1 best use of PPCs were taking just a couple and mating them to a Gauss Rifle which could be done on several chassis several of which could jump?

You're incredibly dishonest to try to pretend there were gangs of 6PPC Stalkers running around, and I'm directly going to say you're a liar when you say those hypothetical made-up groups are the only people upset about ghost heat.

I'm all for debating the system, but lose the attitude. He just used that as an example. I'm not defending his sarcasm, but calling him a liar is ridiculous.

You mention SRM and LRM builds - what builds did it ruin? I run five streaks on one of my SHD and it manages quite well. I also load my BLR up with 50 LRMs and it runs just fine unless I try to cluster spam the whole match (which is dumb for more reasons than heat).

I'm kind of playing both sides of this, but it all goes back to the fact that ghost heat was a horrible fix for an already bad system because it is arbitrary and illogical, making it very unfriendly to users, especially new ones.

[Chronojam]

After ghost heat, we should not have been so surprised when "new players are having trouble navigating" prompted the removal of the map display and lancemate status indicators.

Cimarb, on 30 October 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm all for debating the system, but lose the attitude. He just used that as an example. I'm not defending his sarcasm, but calling him a liar is ridiculous.

"People only complain because their favorite/exploitative build was impacted" really is a toxic attitude. It's right up there with "You can't complain about a product/service unless you have a company that can do better."

[Heffay]

Chronojam, on 30 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

"People only complain because their favorite/exploitative build was impacted" really is a toxic attitude. It's right up there with "You can't complain about a product/service unless you have a company that can do better."

You of all people complaining about toxic attitudes is a hoot.

[Nekki Basara]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

The only people who are upset about ghost heat are people who ran in 4 man groups consisting of all Stalker 3Fs boating PPCs.

I wonder who that would include... We better call the Hardy boys to help solve this case!

They've reported back. I'm afraid it doesn't look good for you. The 2LL, 4Med, 4SRM4 build so beloved of the WoL was almost unaffected by Ghost Heat but hasn't really been at all useful since the Highlander showed up.


Dang, seems like you ARE a liar

[Cimarb]

Nekki Basara, on 30 October 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

They've reported back. I'm afraid it doesn't look good for you. The 2LL, 4Med, 4SRM4 build so beloved of the WoL was almost unaffected by Ghost Heat but hasn't really been at all useful since the Highlander showed up.


Dang, seems like you ARE a liar

So pointing out a build that was affected more by another mech being introduced than it was by ghost heat makes him a liar for generalizing that the ones complaining about ghost heat pilot 3Fs? That doesn't make much sense.

[Nekki Basara]

Well yeah, but only because I couldn't be bothered to go into greater detail about the proper use of Raven 3L ECM scouts with fast Menturion support and Rhino anchors since he seems to think the people complaining are stupid enough to drop in homogenous lances like we're the SLDF and have a whole division at our backs to cover over-reliance on a joke build that never actually worked.

[Texas Merc]

Nothing makes sense.


Welcome to MW:O

[Mr Blonde]

Forum tag check

[Chronojam]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

You of all people complaining about toxic attitudes is a hoot.

It ought to be a hoot. I'm a Level 4 Bird of Lowtax (aka Horned Owl).

[Vaderman]

Cimarb, on 30 October 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm all for debating the system, but lose the attitude. He just used that as an example. I'm not defending his sarcasm, but calling him a liar is ridiculous.

You mention SRM and LRM builds - what builds did it ruin? I run five streaks on one of my SHD and it manages quite well. I also load my BLR up with 50 LRMs and it runs just fine unless I try to cluster spam the whole match (which is dumb for more reasons than heat).

I'm kind of playing both sides of this, but it all goes back to the fact that ghost heat was a horrible fix for an already bad system because it is arbitrary and illogical, making it very unfriendly to users, especially new ones.

This way of discussing the issue I can respect, and from someone who has contributed to the game.

The only thing it ruined were people's ability to bring complete mech destruction in 1/2 volleys, most often at range as soon as you popped your head out.

I would argue that these changes, while acknowledging the fact it may not be the best solution, are far less damaging to new players than them getting one shot all the time and losing interest in playing.

The "spirit" of Battletech that everyone against the changes keep mentioning is that damage is spread out, not heavily targeted at one location like these people are trying to do.

It hasn't affected my ability to take down another mech at all, but then I use mixed weapons builds, as again intended by the spirit of the game.

[z00med]

OMG...the Unseen? Ok, shut up and take my money.
Seriously, I just read about the game while beeing in holidays a week ago, so -besides having a ton of battletech miniatures stored somewhere at my parents place and having played every MW Game- I am a complete Noob with this one, but customizing my first mech after 25 games got me really excited (besides my nagging girlfriend cause i was spending hours of my free friday at smurfeys^^).
I am happy to see some original founders who are still posting reasonable stuff here on the forum (read bout balancing issues, community rage and communication issues as well). This is a F2P MMO. Hopefully it will grow, thats why I will throw 60 bucks at it. If not...well...I gave Chris Roberts cash for a dream...maybe a Kilrathi dream that will never come true or live to the expectations-but thats always the issue with dreams, no?
So, I will bring some friends into the game (explaining the mechlab is horrible, seriously), throw some money at the developers and maybe we'll have a great e-Sports MMO in a year or so.

*PS: Didn't wanted to interupt any Propro-Metagamedisussions, didn't wanted to break a lance for the developers politics, maybe just wanted to write: "OMG...the Unseen!"