42 replies to this topic

[Lazy Eye]

4 core components in a 'mech:

• Pilot
  
• Engine
  
• Torso Chassis
  
• Legs

Assuming pilot is sat in a comfortable position and doesn't have a lot of head room:

Head/Cockpit Height = 1.5m.

Assuming that your fusion engine is AS SMALL as a domestic fridge-freezer, say HxWxD of 2x1x1.

Assuming that your torso chassis "only" needs 1/2 meter of extra material to hold it all together.

Assuming that you bipedal 'mech has normal proportions, i.e. height of legs ~= height of torso:

(1.5 + 2 + 0.5) * 2 = 8m

Engines are interchangeable and we know that they occupy the same amount of space in an Atlas as they do a Commando.

Also, armour is about DENSITY. If you have the same quantity of armour spread over a larger area, then you have less armour: twice as much armour spread over twice the area == the same protection.

Assuming that the size of people is fixed (big ask, I know)... if you make a light 'mech the equivalent of 6m tall... then it's 25% cockpit.

Assuming that the the cockpit window would be about the same size on all 'mechs (why would you make it bigger than it needs to be?) Then smaller 'mechs have cockpit glass as a greater proportion their overall area.

[Victor Morson]

You're talking about a game where you can store 1,280+ guided missiles in an area the size of a VW Bug.

Edited by Victor Morson, 08 August 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[XANi]

Assuming we're playing video game, none of those even matter.

What matters are how thing affect gameplay. Lights are smaller because size and speed are their "armor" and positioning is their "weapons"

[Homeless Bill]

Victor Morson, on 08 August 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

You're talking about a game where you can store 1,280+ guided missiles in an area the size of a VW Bug.

Seriously. Forget realism. Balance > all other concerns.

[Vassago Rain]

Assuming we want a balanced game, where 20/20 of the units are viable.

Assuming we don't want to play only stalkers in community warfare.

Assuming battletech wasn't created by nerds in the 80s, whose only experiences with guns were movies starring Arnold and Stallone.

Assuming a HEATSINK would function as described, when it's clearly a heat pump.

Assuming you know what you're talking about.

>implying implications.
>2013.

I shiggy diggy hope you guys don't do this on the goldforums.

[Joseph Mallan]

Light Mech

Assault Mech

The difference is obvious!

Bigger

Not Bigger

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 August 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[RG Notch]

People keep talking realism in a game with giant walking fusion powered robots packing PPCs and what not. Really?

[Roland]

Gameplay trumps realism.

Being heavier in Mechwarrior is an advantage, because it allows carrying of more armor and weapons.

Thus, the disadvantage of being lighter needs to be offset by being harder to hit, ie. by being smaller.

[Joseph Mallan]

RG Notch, on 08 August 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

People keep talking realism in a game with giant walking fusion powered robots packing PPCs and what not. Really?

Yes we should be ashamed of wanting a little Science with our Fiction!

[Slashmckill]

As stated multiple times Above; lore, fluff and realism take a backseat to game balance and game design. (you have to make the game fun and balanced first and then layer all the lore and fluff on top of it otherwise you get a horrible game filled with bad gameplay and bad design choices)

[RG Notch]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 August 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yes we should be ashamed of wanting a little Science with our Fiction!

Well that went out the door with FTL travel in this universe so why bother? Nevermind, all Fusion engines being the same size and around that of a fridge seems very scientific. I'll let you experts get back to theorizing how that all works.

[Joseph Mallan]

RG Notch, on 08 August 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Well that went out the door with FTL travel in this universe so why bother?

i know a few quantum science guys who could set on the right reason why its ok.

Quote

Nevermind, all Fusion engines being the same size and around that of a fridge seems very scientific.

That has to be quite the big fridge, cause My Fridge is only 300-400 Lbs

Quote

I'll let you experts get back to theorizing how that all works.

I have been reading techno babble discussions between Aerospace engineers, Reactor technicians, Quantum Physicists, and Cops on the science of BattleTech for 11 years, I am not an expert... maybe a Layman but not a expert.

Put simply, 30 tons of Metal and Stuff will not be as big as 100 tons of Metal and Stuff.

[Royalewithcheese]

I like how anybody thinks density matters in battletech.

[Joseph Mallan]

Royalewithcheese, on 08 August 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I like how anybody thinks density matters in battletech.

We have some of the densest fans in gaming. Of course it matters!

[FupDup]

Royalewithcheese, on 08 August 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I like how anybody thinks density matters in battletech.

The only density in this thread is in the OP.

[Mystere]

RG Notch, on 08 August 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

People keep talking realism in a game with giant walking fusion powered robots packing PPCs and what not. Really?

Well, we already have bipedal robots, fusion reactors, and particle beam weapons. Someone just has to create them in the proper scale and somehow put them all together. Should be easy peasy.

[Stoicblitzer]

Lazy Eye, on 08 August 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Head/Cockpit Height = 1.5m.

this is where i stopped reading.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 August 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

We have some of the densest fans in gaming. Of course it matters!

Were you referring to people's brain mass or something else?

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 08 August 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Were you referring to people's brain mass or something else?

Yes

[RG Notch]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 August 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Put simply, 30 tons of Metal and Stuff will not be as big as 100 tons of Metal and Stuff.

What does that have to do with what I said? And the only reason it's significant has nothing to do with realism and everything to do with game balance? I'm sure some one could use the same techno babble gobeldegoop to explain why for some reason the 30ton item is larger, because that's what fluff exists for, to explain the fiction of science fiction.
The only reason it matters that a lighter mech is smaller is for balance, if you want to make up stuff to explain it that's all well and good. I'm here for balanced gameplay. If this were real 31st century fighting I doubt they'd make anything this big and manned or man shaped or in reality anything at all like these machines. But they're fun and the fighting should be balanced. I leave the explaining why it should be balanced to the fiction folks. If I have to choose between "realism" and balance, I'll choose balance every single time.
I'm not against "science" in science fiction, I'm against realism being a bar to balance in gaming.