40 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Branson]

The PPC and ERPPC is simply too dominant on the battlefield right now. Instead of nerfing the projectile speed and/or heat, I think PGI should take a different approach to balance...

Instead of these weapons delivering all their damage to a single location, a certain percentage of the damage will splash into other locations of the BattleMech. For example, if the projectile hits the CT, 70% of the damage will register on the CT while the remaining 30% will splash into the LT/RT respectively (damage will never splash into the head). This would add a unique flavor to this weapon along with toning down the pinpoint damage. This sounds like the perfect nerf for this weapon (would need to be balanced accordingly of course).

Thoughts/Opinions?

Edited by Maverick01, 16 August 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Then the LL will be the FOTM especially since with just a little bit of skill, a person can maintain the pulse on target for 1 second.

Seriously, there is nothing wrong with the PPC and they also have disadvantages that people just don't seem to want to see.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

AFAIK, the devs are going to try something similar to this once splash damage gets re-written.

Cry Engine issue IIRC.

[JohnnyWayne]

Srsly, I see way more gauss rifles than PPC's out there. In BT these 2 are the weapons meant to be dominant and the only issue currently with them is their synergy. These weapons themselfs are fine.

Your suggestion makes no sense, neither technical nor canonical. Have a nice day.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 August 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[D A T A]

if you give to ppc 8 heat and 10 damage, also no heat penality for 3 ppc, i think that the idea of 70% only on ct is fine.
in this way i would use again ppcs

[MustrumRidcully]

If you want to nerf the way the projectile act, better do it with a mechanic that works reliable instead of a mechanic that causes the LRM apocalypse III. Or was it IV? I dunno anymore.

But anyway, just turn the PPC in a beam weapon like the lasers. It would still have notable differences from a laser, for example, the EMP effect could potentially become even more useful, as you can potentially hit multiple enemies with a beam (depending its length).

Of course, that would still leave the Gauss as great sniper weapon, so I am not convinced dealing with this on a weapon-by- weapon basis is the best approach and we aren't better off changing some mechanical foundations of the game.

[Ralgas]

Or just do a global drop on projectile speeds, which will futer nerf weapon mixing while at the same time leaving ghost heat to deal with boating. After that it a case of move more!!

[Damocles69]

this makes no sense... expect to see it next patch because PGI

[Phoenix Branson]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

Your suggestion makes no sense, neither technical nor canonical. Have a nice day.

Game balance trumps canon if PGI wants to make MWO an e-sport.

[Hexenhammer]

Maverick01, on 17 August 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Game balance trumps canon if PGI wants to make MWO an e-sport.

Prophetic words of doom if I ever heard 'em.

[VanillaG]

You realize that the way that you described it, the PPC would 130% damage, 70% CT, 30%RT, 30% LT. If you want the spread the damage from a PPC it would just be easier to give it a beam duration like all other energy weapons instead of coming up with specific mechanic for this weapon. If you want to it do pinpoint damage, balance it against ballistics, not the other energy weapons in regards to heat, projectile velocity, damage, and rate of fire. The reason the PPC feels overpowered is that it is balanced against energy weapons but does ballistic style damage.

[DjPush]

Weapons aren't the problem. Alpha strikes are. You can alpha a target over and over with no real penalty. You don't "die" from over heating. The engine or heat sinks should be destroyed if you alpha too much. It should be a real concern to pilots, but it isn't at the moment so wait for a mech to shut down then pop him good!

[Coralld]

I'm just going to quote a suggestion I posted in another thread about PPCs.

Coralld, on 16 August 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I have an interesting idea.
As we all know lasers have a beam duration, during the beam duration is when the heat rises, or to be more accurate, creeps up, and only cools when the lasers finishes firing. What if we took this idea and through it in another direction for PPC weapons. What if we made it so that after the PPC fires and the heat spikes that the heat stays where it is until all the PPCs that were fired finish their recharge cycle? This way those who have a hard on for their PPC don't have to worry about more ghost heat as the heat is the same but simply prevents the mech from cooling down until the PPCs finish recharging. It would make sense do to the fact that recharging what is for a lack of a better term a weaponized hadron collider would require a lot of power to recharge and thus prevent any kind of cooling to occur. This will make PPCs and ERPPC great for what they were meant for, which is mid to long range fighting, but would leave them gimped in close range combat because they would never have an opportunity to cool down if they constantly fired their PPCs every time they were ready. This would also allow for the other long range energy option, the LLs, to actually be appealing and useful. Because who would want to be shut down for an extra 4 seconds because the last weapons you fired were PPCs?

Just another of my 2 C-Bills thrown out there.

I have been giving it some thought, instead of waiting for the full PPCs to cycle, which is 4 sec, it would instead be at 2.5 to 3 sec before your mech starts cooling.

Edited by Coralld, 17 August 2013 - 07:59 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Unless all weapons do this same splash damage it wouldn't work to balance anything. You would just remove the PPC from the field of play.

There is nothing wrong with the PPC. The most used weapon in MWO remains the Medium Laser. The most powerful weapons in MWO are the Autocannons. What you are seeing is just that most mechs can carry a PPC and most mechs can't boat AC's or Medium Lasers. If I could fill my Awesome with Medium Lasers I would drop all the PPCs and carry 12 Medium Lasers. I think that's a Blackhawk loadout actually (in case anyone thinks it isn't done).

Beam duration on Large Lasers is too long for them to be used at full ranges. So you might as well just take medium lasers, so MWO is Medium Lasers and PPCs. Fix large lasers correctly and the PPC goes away. Poof! Leave large lasers as they are and not many will use them, forcing then to use PPCs instead.

Autocannons are waaayyy overpowered in MWO, not PPCs. Autocannons just fire away every 2-4 seconds and never stop. PPCs overheat pretty quickly and stop firing. Just bring enough ammo and you AC is super-powered with 2xRecharge. I can't take anyone seriously who would nerf PPCs but not Autocannons. Balance is not what you seek.

PPCs can compete with Autocannons till they overheat though, so there is some harmony, if Large Lasers had a shorter beam duration to go with their longer range, they would come into balance also. Large lasers are potentially better than PPCs, but with the long beam duration you might as well replace them with Medium Lasers since 300 meters is the maximum effective range in a moving battle.

Edited by Lightfoot, 17 August 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Flying Blind]

Long range weapons need longer cool down times. This has minimal impact on their usefulness in sniping. Plain and simple short range weapons need to be better at short range but aren't because the long range weapons fire too quickly thus creating a very high DPS the short range weapons can't beat. So PPC & gauss rifless are close to the best at short range and the best long range weapons so why would you run anything else if you want to be competitive?
In past MW games these weapons had cool downs of 6 or more seconds and were fairly well balanced because of it.

Edited by Flying Blind, 17 August 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[ROJ]

I find that the PPC is a very overrated weapon, that can be easily avoided in most cases. I stopped using them for a long time, there are other practical alternatives and load outs to use. If people use PPCs dominantly on battle, its their choice.

It never bothered me and there is plenty of passive ways to counter PPCs and jump sniping that it doesnt require any nerfing, for example: hiding behind cover?

I dont understand why so many people make a fuss out of it when there are far more evil weapons in the game, such as: the gauss rifle or a pair of UAC5. Next thing I know somebody will ask for these to get nerfed as well.

[Lightfoot]

Flying Blind, on 17 August 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Long range weapons need longer cool down times. This has minimal impact on their usefulness in sniping. Plain and simple short range weapons need to be better at short range but aren't because the long range weapons fire too quickly thus creating a very high DPS the short range weapons can't beat. So PPC & gauss rifless are close to the best at short range and the best long range weapons so why would you run anything else if you want to be competitive?
In past MW games these weapons had cool downs of 6 or more seconds and were fairly well balanced because of it.

QFT. Large short range like AC20 was 6 seconds and Gauss and ERPPCs were 8 seconds. AC10's were 4 seconds. AC-5's 2.5 seconds, AC2's were 1 second.

[Bernard Matthaios]

I like the splash damage idea. However I thought the PPC or more the ERPPC was a energy sniping weapon? Wouldn't this totally remove its "intended" role? I still think it needs a bump in heat and a l o n g e r cool down. Adding in EMP effects, would help strengthen the weapon IF the cool down was increased... no?

[Mazzyplz]

beam duration on ppc... LOOOL!!!!! you DO know it's a projectile it fires right??!?


ppc is only good above 300 meters. sucks for brawling, what more disadvantages do you want?
they should make it so that if you shoot ppc and gauss they never fire at the same time though, a delay should be put in place

[JohnnyWayne]

Maverick01, on 17 August 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Game balance trumps canon if PGI wants to make MWO an e-sport.

One could atleast try to not **** up the most iconic weapon in BT. Any change of the weapon itself would lead to the state that PPCs are not PPCs anymore .

I already posted my opinion regarding ppc/gauss in multiple topics. PPC itself is more than fine.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 August 2013 - 08:50 AM.