140 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

So, here is the big issue. I've stated this in the past to fall upon deaf ears. I have solutions to this imbalance not just concerns/complaints; however you want it to be worded.

Light Mechs
They run around at very high speeds, and can carry most of all the weapons any medium or heavy can. Sure they can't carry as many, but it doesn't really matter cause with almost every weapon you fire you only fire them one at a time. They pretty much can an do outrun missiles or they have ECM; so the one weapon that would help half the kill the 80% of high ping ones is useless. Some of the are so short my Atlas can't even shoot them when they are all up in my face. Collisions seem to be turned off still it seems. Also, they are smaller targets. So, I'll break it down to you guys. An heavy class vs a light class pros and cons. They you can give me your opinion on it if you read my post.

Light
+Fast
+Small frame and hit boxes (added bonus high ping)
+Uses same weapons as all mechs there is no "light" version.
+Runs/Jump jets everywhere
+ECM on almost every model of of the lights
+Has more areas for cover and a faster reaction window to avoid DMG
-If hit "if" can die in a few number of shots
-Can't fit as many weapons/ammo on them as a heavy

Heavy
+Carries a lot of weapons
+Lasts a tad but longer in a brawl
-Really slow
-All heavy's are very wide and big aa well as very easy to target and hit, so much so you have to be really bad if you missed
-Can't out run any ECM requires no leading of shots like when fighting a light mech

So I ask you this. Why run anything but a light mech. The pros outweigh cons by far.

[Deathlike]

Someone missed the AssaultWarrior memo?

Lights do get crushed.. however with the borked implementation of HSR, they are running a more rampant (whining about Spiders is the new meta). It is not impossible to hit them... it requires some patience and skill (both of which are in low supply and high demand).

On the other hand... it almost sounds to me that you haven't played lights... because it really isn't that easy to pilot one. Light mechs do not provide the instant gratification that a one-shot kill from a heavy or assault does in the current state of the game. That's the difference.

[BookWyrm]

I might take this seriously, if there was any evidence at all to back up the claim that there was no reason to play anything else...

[Team Leader]

Wha.. what? No. What are you talking about? Lights cant be the optimal mechs!


*throws tarp over mastered jenners spiders and ravens*

[Imperius]

Deathlike, on 19 August 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Someone missed the AssaultWarrior memo?

Lights do get crushed.. however with the borked implementation of HSR, they are running a more rampant (whining about Spiders is the new meta). It is not impossible to hit them... it requires some patience and skill (both of which are in low supply and high demand).

On the other hand... it almost sounds to me that you haven't played lights... because it really isn't that easy to pilot one. Light mechs do not provide the instant gratification that a one-shot kill from a heavy or assault does in the current state of the game. That's the difference.

Are you telling me its hard to get behind a heavy and burn 60-80 damage on their back spot while you prance around and use the lag/jump jets running in a circle? Right now they are still over powered just like when I quit 3 months ago. I see ECM still is op and here too. So what got fixed since I left? All I see is some new mechs, maps, swag, added range finder to weapon system, oh and gravity. I guess I should add that as another - to any class other than a light.

[Mystere]

Gee, here's another one of those thinly veiled "I got killed by xxx, nerf xxx" threads.

[PanzerMagier]

I'm not complaining I can't hit lights. I actually do hit them with relative ease. It's that less than half of my shots actually register damage and when they do, they only register a fraction of the supposed damage dealt.


With incoming tonnage limits we'll definitely start seeing how crappy mediums are vs lights. It will be lights lights lights and the few players who play anything heavier only do so because they refuse to play lights. In battletech you're supposed to be scared of a heavier mech. In MWO, it's literally the opposite.

The conclusion is this: It's not that lights are overpowered, they're simply much more powerful than what they're originally designed to be.

[Araara]

the lights cannot exchange fire as well with heavier mechs. Sure it can hit and run easier (which seems to be your problem). But think of it this way : everytime the light mech has to shoot you with lasers, it WILL have to keep looking at your for a full second window in which case he usually has to be stable (aka move in a straight line, in the air jumpjetting, turning at a fixed rate).

It's your job to learn those patterns and time yourself appropriately with lasers / ballistics. In higher elo gameplay, aiming skills are developped enough as light mechs are pretty rare and very squishy.



Also, some heavy mechs build run at 70-90 km/h. It isn't really what i would consider "slow". It's also much much easier to torso twist and spread the damage on a heavy mech compared to a light mech, not to mention builds that have standard engines last longer than lights, usually.


One of the main advantage of lights is that because of their mobility and size, they can often join up with fellow lights or join with the brawl force, making that group usually swarm a smaller group. They also serve great as diversion. If ever someone tries to kill them, they can just evade, peek over and shoot you to get your attention and hide again, making you waste precious seconds as the main group looms nearer to your location. Is the versatility in lights OP? I'm not sure, I'd just call it smart play. It IS a team game and there should be light mech hunters in the form of fast mediums / lights (or cover fire from adjacent snipers). Try to call for help if you've got a nasty ****** on you, you'll be surprised how fast some come to help you because they know their role!

Edited by Araara, 19 August 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[BookWyrm]

If lights are so powerful then why do a majority of players still use heavier mechs? Don't tell me it's for the challenge:)

[James The Fox Dixon]

Oh noes my Fatlas got killed by a light pilot!

[Deathlike]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Are you telling me its hard to get behind a heavy and burn 60-80 damage on their back spot while you prance around and use the lag/jump jets running in a circle? Right now they are still over powered just like when I quit 3 months ago. I see ECM still is op and here too. So what got fixed since I left? All I see is some new mechs, maps, swag, added range finder to weapon system, oh and gravity. I guess I should add that as another - to any class other than a light.

It's not that hard if the heavy/assault mech is incompetent or is distracted (which has been always been the best time to make contact). Of course, if the heavy/assault mech was smart enough to... SHIELD THEIR BACKS with buildings/obstructions... then this discussion wouldn't need to take place.

[Imperius]

Mystere, on 19 August 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Gee, here's another one of those thinly veiled "I got killed by xxx, nerf xxx" threads.

Not really need to nerf a light but make a heavy's armor count and all heavy weapons should hit harder period. Our weakness is we are slow and a huge target something a light really shouldn't have a chance to kill. Call it what you want but it's nothing like the books I read about heavy's. in the books it's like "Oh god! It's an Atlas! We are all doomed!" This game it's like "oh look a slow moving wall let me circle it a few times and kill it with my amazing speed no collision and jump jets. Back up to a wall and shield my back? What so it can just jump jet behind me and club me like the overweight elephant seal I am? No thanks I'll pass, I just back up and "try to guess the lead in my shot I need for lag and speed while they circle my crosshairs" Honesly if you don't think it's broken then most likely it's the crunch that makes you think you're good at the game.

A light is supposed to:
Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!

Edited by Imperius, 19 August 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Imperius]

PanzerMagier, on 19 August 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

I'm not complaining I can't hit lights. I actually do hit them with relative ease. It's that less than half of my shots actually register damage and when they do, they only register a fraction of the supposed damage dealt.


With incoming tonnage limits we'll definitely start seeing how crappy mediums are vs lights. It will be lights lights lights and the few players who play anything heavier only do so because they refuse to play lights. In battletech you're supposed to be scared of a heavier mech. In MWO, it's literally the opposite.

The conclusion is this: It's not that lights are overpowered, they're simply much more powerful than what they're originally designed to be.

Thank god someone understands.... Thank you

[Braggart]

we had about a month back around jan/feb where hit detection was great, and lights were extremely easy to hit and kill. Then something happen to the HSR and lag got worse, after it had been improving for a while.

Lights might be powerful now, but trust me. When hit detection gets its act together. Lights will be back to be fragile play things that only the elite can play in.

[Taemien]

OP I want these questions answered, before I can even debate this, I need more information, and that burden is on you.

1. What mech are you using.
2. What is its loadout?
3. What is the situation that you keep finding yourself in that you believe lights are OP in.
a. Who is with you? Are you alone?
b. What part of the map are you in? Close to base, far from base?

PanzerMagier, on 19 August 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

In battletech you're supposed to be scared of a heavier mech. In MWO, it's literally the opposite.

Read the Warrior Trilogy, specifically the fight between Cochraine's Goliaths and the Davion Light Guard.

Basically Locusts (20tons) and Firstarters (35tons) against Goliaths (80tons).

Once you've done that, please come back with some evidence that heavier mechs should be 'scary'. I've been playing MechWarrior for 15 years and have never been scared of heavier machines. Same thing with TT.

[K0M3D14N]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Not really need a light but make a heavy's armor count and all heavy weapons should hit harder period. Our weakness is we are slow and a huge target something a light really shouldn't have a chance to kill. Call it what you want but it's nothing like the books I read about heavy's. in the books it's like "Oh god! It's an Atlas! We are all doomed!" This game it's like "oh look a slow moving wall let me circle it a few times and kill it with my amazing speed no collision and jump jets. Back up to a wall and shield my back? What so it can just jump jet behind me and club me like the overweight elephant seal I am? No thanks I'll pass, I just back up and "try to guess the lead in my shot I need for lag and speed while they circle my crosshairs" Honesly if you don't think it's broken then most likely it's the crunch that makes you think you're good at the game.

A light is supposed to:
Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!

...if that's the case, then why was the Commando designed first and foremost as a Striker? Or the Jenner? You're basically asking to have the two most heavily armed Lights in the game to be absolutely worthless because you seem to have it in you're head that "I'm heavier than you, therefore I win." If a Light 'Mech gets caught out, if you put yourself in a bad spot, you are dead. If you round a corner right in front of an entire lance of 'Mechs, you are dead.

If you play smart, you can do a lot of damage and cause some serious havoc among the enemy's back line and really stir up their Assaults. If you play dumb, you're dead. That's the way it should be.

[Wolfways]

PGI said that they didn't want light mechs to be "left out of the picture" (I presume they didn't know how to make scouting worth doing) so they decided to make them assault killers.
I could go along with that if it was extremely dangerous for them to get in front of an assault, but it isn't. Lights just circle-strafe all day long.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Not really need to nerf a light but make a heavy's armor count and all heavy weapons should hit harder period. Our weakness is we are slow and a huge target something a light really shouldn't have a chance to kill. Call it what you want but it's nothing like the books I read about heavy's. in the books it's like "Oh god! It's an Atlas! We are all doomed!" This game it's like "oh look a slow moving wall let me circle it a few times and kill it with my amazing speed no collision and jump jets. Back up to a wall and shield my back? What so it can just jump jet behind me and club me like the overweight elephant seal I am? No thanks I'll pass, I just back up and "try to guess the lead in my shot I need for lag and speed while they circle my crosshairs" Honesly if you don't think it's broken then most likely it's the crunch that makes you think you're good at the game.

A light is supposed to:
Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!

Explain why the Eridani Light Horse was able to wage war on numerous planets over 4 centuries in nothing more than light mechs?

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 19 August 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Wolfways]

BookWyrm, on 19 August 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

If lights are so powerful then why do a majority of players still use heavier mechs? Don't tell me it's for the challenge:)

Because three quarters of mech classes are heavier?
Not that your statement is accurate anyway. There are more lights per team than any other class in nearly every match.

[Vodrin Thales]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Are you telling me its hard to get behind a heavy and burn 60-80 damage on their back spot while you prance around and use the lag/jump jets running in a circle? Right now they are still over powered just like when I quit 3 months ago. I see ECM still is op and here too. So what got fixed since I left? All I see is some new mechs, maps, swag, added range finder to weapon system, oh and gravity. I guess I should add that as another - to any class other than a light.

If this is true, why do we see teams running 8-9 Assault mechs in competative 12 mans with just enough light mechs to spot the enemy and make sure the heavies don't get base capped?

The competitive team makeup (when there are no artificial tonnage limits placed) probably is better evidence of what mechs are most powerful at any given time, and light mechs are minority players hear with assaults and heavies being the dominant mechs.