140 replies to this topic

[James The Fox Dixon]

Wolfways, on 19 August 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

There are more lights per team than any other class in nearly every match.

Speaking of accuracy... In almost all of the Assault matches I've been in there has been one or two light mechs with the rest being heavy and assault. Pics or it didn't happen.

[Taemien]

Wolfways, on 19 August 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

PGI said that they didn't want light mechs to be "left out of the picture" (I presume they didn't know how to make scouting worth doing) so they decided to make them assault killers.
I could go along with that if it was extremely dangerous for them to get in front of an assault, but it isn't. Lights just circle-strafe all day long.

They've been Assault Killers since the 1980s. Just did a TT game on Thursday where an Owens (35tons, think Jenner with a bigger engine) with 2 Medium Pulse Lasers and an SRM 4 forced a Cyclops (90tons) to withdraw. Cyclops got one medium laser to hit the entire time, but took 60 points of damage over all from the Owens.

Also it is dangerous for the light mech to run in front of an assault. Assuming the assault pilot is worth their salt. Though in MWO, most of the community is not.

[Vodrin Thales]

Wolfways, on 19 August 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Because three quarters of mech classes are heavier?
Not that your statement is accurate anyway. There are more lights per team than any other class in nearly every match.

This is not at all true in the matches I have been in recently. I am seeing more assaults than any other class, and heavies are as common as lights. Only mediums are under represented.

Look, if this thread were here 9 months ago I'd be saying you are right, but most lights are not hard to kill in larger mechs anymore. Only spiders have screwy hit characteristics now, and all that really needs to be changed to fix the problem is to fix the engine so that hits register properly. Buffing heavier mechs is certainly not a reasonable solution.

[stjobe]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

can carry most of all the weapons any medium or heavy can. Sure they can't carry as many, but it doesn't really matter cause with almost every weapon you fire you only fire them one at a time.

Whu-what? If you're firing your weapons one at a time you're doing it W.R.O.N.G. And why shouldn't lights be able to mount the same weapons all other 'mechs can, tonnage permitting?

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

They pretty much can an do outrun missiles

No, they cannot. The fastest a 'mech can travel is 151.7 kph, and LRMs have a speed of 432 kph (120m/s). What they CAN do is outmaneuver LRMs.

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

or they have ECM;

Out of 16 light variants, 3 have ECM. The Cicada, despite popular opinion, is not a light; and neither is the AS7-D-DC.

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Some of the are so short my Atlas can't even shoot them when they are all up in my face.

So kill them before they get "all up in your face"?

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Why run anything but a light mech.

I can't think of a reason not to, but then again I'm crazy enough to have mastered five Commando variants.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

This weekend I noticed two things. Every match had 5+ lights. Every match had 3+ atlas. Not a single match ever ended in a close decision. It always comes down to your mediums and how conservative they play.

[James The Fox Dixon]

I want Imperius to explain how the Eridani Light Horse and other Light Horse/Striker units in the Battletech Universe were able to wage war for centuries utilizing nothing but light mechs against heavier mechs if they are only able to, "Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!"

[Wolfways]

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Speaking of accuracy... In almost all of the Assault matches I've been in there has been one or two light mechs with the rest being heavy and assault. Pics or it didn't happen.

Well i only play conquest, but i find the classes fairly evenly represented, But if one class does outnumber any other class it's always the lights.

[Taemien]

I want to know the people who are piloting these light mechs that made these people come on the forums with these complaints. Screw the balance discussion, I'm surprised there is actually some light mech pilots that actually know what they are doing. It used to be these people would complain about base caps.

Well guess what, the lights stopped going after the base and went after you all instead. Where's your god(s) now?

[Imperius]

Taemien, on 19 August 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

OP I want these questions answered, before I can even debate this, I need more information, and that burden is on you.

1. What mech are you using.
2. What is its loadout?
3. What is the situation that you keep finding yourself in that you believe lights are OP in.
a. Who is with you? Are you alone?
b. What part of the map are you in? Close to base, far from base?




Read the Warrior Trilogy, specifically the fight between Cochraine's Goliaths and the Davion Light Guard.

Basically Locusts (20tons) and Firstarters (35tons) against Goliaths (80tons).

Once you've done that, please come back with some evidence that heavier mechs should be 'scary'. I've been playing MechWarrior for 15 years and have never been scared of heavier machines. Same thing with TT.

I use two main mechs
Atlas Founders X2 ER PPC, AC20, LRM 20 Artimis.
Gausspult (this one lights usually aren't an issue cause I have good turn speed)

Situation varies from game type to game type. If it's capture I defend and post up at the closest best vantage point I can close to the base. Providing LRM and ER PPC fire or Gauss Sniping. The atlas has gotten rushed by two lights high ping and I could really do nothing but just get pissed. I can't really miss much PPC hit increase so I can only alpha once maybe 2-3 times depending on map. Then I have to fire the AC20 till I cool down.

The biggest issue I have is sometimes I hit the sweet spot and one shot them but 80% of the time I seem to get glancing blows where I hit them "reticule turns red" yet the damage they take doesn't reflect that of 2xPPC and an AC20.

Big thing to add I live in the US and work nights so I play nights on the weekends 8pm till 7am so I fight the UK a lot hence 120+ ping and lag.

It's more of a they can hit me but I can't hit them because I have to ghost shot them. Add the fact they have enough firepower to kill me rather quickly and there really isn't a damn thing I can do because I'm so slow. On their end if I get a good hit well he goes screw that runs off caps points. I don't get an option like that. So it's only fair that if I encounter a light I should be able to look at it as food for my K/D if he is there to go toe to toe with me. Now if I had a light drill my back while I was fighting a team GG well played. I only play with 1-2 other guys so I'm not surprised when there team is not willing to talk or listen to direction. Even if they spot me and keep their disgrace while playing peek a boo that's fine. But when I see a light just strait run up to me no fear or sense of worry that I may land a death blow... That's a problem!

Edited by Imperius, 19 August 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I want Imperius to explain how the Eridani Light Horse and other Light Horse/Striker units in the Battletech Universe were able to wage war for centuries utilizing nothing but light mechs against heavier mechs if they are only able to, "Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!"

Still waiting Imperius....

[Wolfways]

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I want Imperius to explain how the Eridani Light Horse and other Light Horse/Striker units in the Battletech Universe were able to wage war for centuries utilizing nothing but light mechs against heavier mechs if they are only able to, "Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!"

Never read about it, but i'd assume they outnumbered the bigger mechs and harrassed them. Light mechs are supposed to use geurilla tactics. I bet they didn't go face-to-face.

[Deathlike]

If you have trouble hitting lights, it's because you're not using LASERS.

Of course, if you want to use PPCs and AC20s, you need to increase your skills on that... by a lot.

[KKRonkka]

Well, light mechs have been more or less broken since closed beta (but back then it was a luxury privilege to collide with them).

SSRM lights with lag shield, fun fun.

Jump jets + lag lights, fun fun fun fun.

HSR+ SSRM nerf fixed this partially but HSR broke after few patches, fun fun.

Spider can stand still and suck 40 points of damage to its leg without giving a ****, how cool is that. It's not a question about skill, it's like throwing a dice and seeing if your "hit" was a hit at all.

[Wolfways]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

SRM 20 Artimis.

Holy ****! Where'd you get that?

[James The Fox Dixon]

Wolfways, on 19 August 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Never read about it, but i'd assume they outnumbered the bigger mechs and harrassed them. Light mechs are supposed to use geurilla tactics. I bet they didn't go face-to-face.

Try again. They regularly went face to face.

http://www.sarna.net...ani_Light_Horse

[Imperius]

Taemien, on 19 August 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

I want to know the people who are piloting these light mechs that made these people come on the forums with these complaints. Screw the balance discussion, I'm surprised there is actually some light mech pilots that actually know what they are doing. It used to be these people would complain about base caps.

Well guess what, the lights stopped going after the base and went after you all instead. Where's your god(s) now?

I would hardly call circle strafing hard or skill... Add wonky hit boxes, and no collision or knockdowns a skilled pilot. More like a kid on a bike with knee pads, training wheels, dirt bike suit and a helmet. The kid could fall a hundred times and be fine never learning how to ride the bike or fear the lack of imbalance.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I would hardly call circle strafing hard or skill... Add wonky hit boxes, and no collision or knockdowns a skilled pilot. More like a kid on a bike with knee pads, training wheels, dirt bike suit and a helmet. The kid could fall a hundred times and be fine never learning how to ride the bike or fear the lack of imbalance.

This is coming from a guy that out tons a light and dies to them all the time. Who exactly is the no-skilled person there?

[Imperius]

Wolfways, on 19 August 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Holy ****! Where'd you get that?

Lol my bad I meant LRM 20

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I think we do not play same game.
I have exactly opposite problem.It is so easy to hit lights with lasers or high speed high dmg weapons like gauss or PPC.
And it is not funny since I have mastered every light every variant of light mechs.
Like cruising over Alpine in my comando-2d and suddenly whoosh and I am dead by gauss+2ppc ECMed Highlander to left rear torso...

[BookWyrm]

Honestly if light mechs are this big an issue for you I can only imagine that you must have a very high latency. If really think they are grossly overpowered though; please try piloting them for a while and come back to regale us with tales of your heroism

Edited by BookWyrm, 19 August 2013 - 08:27 AM.