140 replies to this topic

[James The Fox Dixon]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

I need to learn to lag shoot... While you have no lag from me cause I move at the speed of a fart... You have issues man quit posting here you're already proving you have no idea how imbalanced the game is. I'm not supposed to learn how to lag shoot better aka aim my reticle at air hoping that I actually hit it in the face" that's a game issue. Why don't we just remove the crosshairs we don't need them then we all can practice lag shooting.

I actually have lag and I've experienced hit detection problems of my small pulse lasers not hitting bigger mechs. However, I don't use that as a crutch and call someone no skilled because I died due to the game. As far as balance and me understanding goes, take a gander at my post history then get back to me. I understand all too well what the balance problems are in this game and I've written up many a thread detailing ways of fixing them as proposals. You see, unlike you, I don't whine and ask for a nerf. I spend the time to write up a detailed analysis of the problem then suggest a solution to the problem. Attack the post not the poster which is what you just did.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

So the other day I was thinking about this and I tried out a spider to see if lights truly are as OP as people stated. This was my first time ever playing a light mech and bear in mind I had no masteries of any sort. The results speak for themselves.

I guess I was wrong, spiders are just is terribad and not OP in the slightest bit.............
Definitely does NOT need a nerf
/sarcasm

[stjobe]

Wolfways, on 19 August 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Just wish i could figure out why if i pound the crap out of a Jenner with dual ERPPC's it doesn't seem to do much

It's because hit registration and Host State Rewind has "issues". PGI say they're working on it, and popular opinion notwithstanding it doesn't only affect Spiders, but every single 'mech. It's just more pronounced on the Spider since it's such a small target to start with and that it's the "Centurion of lights", i.e. it has large arm debris, large side torsos, and small CT, meaning damage transfer works in its favour most of the times.

[BookWyrm]

Asian Tupac, on 19 August 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

So the other day I was thinking about this and I tried out a spider to see if lights truly are as OP as people stated. This was my first time ever playing a light mech and bear in mind I had no masteries of any sort. The results speak for themselves.

I guess I was wrong, spiders are just is terribad and not OP in the slightest bit.............
Definitely does NOT need a nerf
/sarcasm

An experienced pilot dropped into an average ELO game was able get a few kills? Shocker! You only did an average 177 damage per round though, I'd expect more.

Edited by BookWyrm, 19 August 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[Tombstoner]

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Tell us why the ELH and other Light Horse units regularly went up against heavier mechs and won in the lore when you said that they shouldn't be able to.

To tell a good story.
lights can use long range weapons to pester down the opfors rear armor.
lights can attack vulnerable resupply points.
sometimes destroying the opfor is not needed to take a planet. particularly if you cant engage them in combat.
assuming the ELH does make a stand... hit and run strategies will win the day. superior mobility wins.
technically by the rules of TT if a lights closed with a heavy it should be gutted by superior fire power.

casue a ppc does 10 damage and most lights only have 5-6 armor on most locations.

The lore states an atlas can fight off a company of lights. that's 12 mechs. I have done this BTW. Thanks to PGI's implementation lights are stronger then an atlas. mostly due to the extremely week armor on the atlas rear that results from a bad implementation / translation of TT armors interaction with speed, mech size and hit box location.


MWO is NOT TT. lights are more powerfull so the question becomes why doest every one take them

simple answer is with 12 players the lights are at some point running strait at someone. and that and easy shot. so 1-1 they rule. for larger groups its heavy's and assaults because of more chances to hit the light mech and more LRM's

[James The Fox Dixon]

Tombstoner, on 19 August 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

To tell a good story.
lights can use long range weapons to pester down the opfors rear armor.
lights can attack vulnerable resupply points.
sometimes destroying the opfor is not needed to take a planet. particularly if you cant engage them in combat.
assuming the ELH does make a stand... hit and run strategies will win the day. superior mobility wins.
technically by the rules of TT if a lights closed with a heavy it should be gutted by superior fire power.

casue a ppc does 10 damage and most lights only have 5-6 armor on most locations.

The lore states an atlas can fight off a company of lights. that's 12 mechs. I have done this BTW. Thanks to PGI's implementation lights are stronger then an atlas. mostly due to the extremely week armor on the atlas rear that results from a bad implementation / translation of TT armors interaction with speed, mech size and hit box location.


MWO is NOT TT. lights are more powerfull so the question becomes why doest every one take them

simple answer is with 12 players the lights are at some point running strait at someone. and that and easy shot. so 1-1 they rule. for larger groups its heavy's and assaults because of more chances to hit the light mech and more LRM's

There we go with the MWO isn't TT. The moment someone says that it tells me they don't have a clue when it comes to TT nor how it can be translated over into real time.

PGI's implementation of lights is fine since there is significant trouble in hitting a light. Lights swarming over a heavier mech should win unless the pilot is really experienced.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

BookWyrm, on 19 August 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

An experienced pilot dropped into an average ELO game was able get a few kills? Shocker! You only did an average 177 damage per round though, I'd expect more.

Damage per game is completely irrelevant.

I had low damage rounds where I spent the first 6 minutes running around in the middle of an enemy team distracting their assaults who were unable to hit me while my team came up from behind and steamrolled, I can post a screenie of a 600 dmg game as the same mech if it makes you feel better. The simple fact is that is possible to carry a team as a spider if you know what you are doing as I have proven.

Btw, I have a 3 digit ping too.

Its sad that people like james who pilot an OP mech like this blame game mechanics when it is obvious that it is a L2P issue.

As for me, now that I've experienced how OP this mech is, I'm going to exploit the living sh#t out of this until it is fixed. Have fun trying to hit me out there fellas.

Edited by Asian Tupac, 19 August 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Before we try to discuss the effectiveness of the Light weight class as a whole as well as the possible need for nerfs/buffs, I think we should wait for PGI's fix on Laser HSR; it used to work perfectly until a few months ago and during that time, Light 'Mechs seemed to be in a position almost as bad as that of Medium 'Mechs due to the ease with which a 'Mech armed with Lasers could cripple and destroy them.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 19 August 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Someone missed the AssaultWarrior memo?

Lights do get crushed.. however with the borked implementation of HSR, they are running a more rampant (whining about Spiders is the new meta). It is not impossible to hit them... it requires some patience and LUCK (both of which are in low supply and high demand).

On the other hand... it almost sounds to me that you haven't played lights... because it really isn't that easy to pilot one. Light mechs do not provide the instant gratification that a one-shot kill from a heavy or assault does in the current state of the game. That's the difference.

FTFY

When you can alpha a shutdown spider or commando at near PBR (100-150 meters) and regularly score ZERO damage, skill suddenly has little to do with the situation.

[Taemien]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

I use two main mechs
Atlas Founders X2 ER PPC, AC20, LRM 20 Artimis.
Gausspult (this one lights usually aren't an issue cause I have good turn speed)

Situation varies from game type to game type. If it's capture I defend and post up at the closest best vantage point I can close to the base. Providing LRM and ER PPC fire or Gauss Sniping. The atlas has gotten rushed by two lights high ping and I could really do nothing but just get pissed. I can't really miss much PPC hit increase so I can only alpha once maybe 2-3 times depending on map. Then I have to fire the AC20 till I cool down.

You got 2v1'd. Your fate would have been the same with any other two mechs in the game. Next time bring a buddy, don't go off alone.

Quote

The biggest issue I have is sometimes I hit the sweet spot and one shot them but 80% of the time I seem to get glancing blows where I hit them "reticule turns red" yet the damage they take doesn't reflect that of 2xPPC and an AC20.

This is a bug. Not a feature of light mechs. This is getting fixed. Read the QnA's and Command Chair posts. If you're basing your problems around this, then you're just posting redundant information.

Quote

Big thing to add I live in the US and work nights so I play nights on the weekends 8pm till 7am so I fight the UK a lot hence 120+ ping and lag.

Who you fight doesn't determine your lag. You'll play on the same server whether its at 2pm EDT, or 2am EDT. If your ping is over 120, then you need to look to your own connection.

Quote

It's more of a they can hit me but I can't hit them because I have to ghost shot them. Add the fact they have enough firepower to kill me rather quickly and there really isn't a damn thing I can do because I'm so slow. On their end if I get a good hit well he goes screw that runs off caps points. I don't get an option like that. So it's only fair that if I encounter a light I should be able to look at it as food for my K/D if he is there to go toe to toe with me. Now if I had a light drill my back while I was fighting a team GG well played. I only play with 1-2 other guys so I'm not surprised when there team is not willing to talk or listen to direction. Even if they spot me and keep their disgrace while playing peek a boo that's fine. But when I see a light just strait run up to me no fear or sense of worry that I may land a death blow... That's a problem!

If you're running with other people you shouldn't have any issues with lights. But from your first answer it seems like you're running off on your own. Assaults are meant to support other mechs, not the other way around. Assaults by themselves are deadmeat. Run with a group (or a better group if you are already in a group) if you plan on using Assaults. Otherwise stick to smaller mechs.

[Budor]

Broken HSR and no collisions make lights easier to play than they are supposed to but you still need to be pretty good to pull decent scores.

[Mystere]

Taemien, on 19 August 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

I want to know the people who are piloting these light mechs that made these people come on the forums with these complaints. Screw the balance discussion, I'm surprised there is actually some light mech pilots that actually know what they are doing. It used to be these people would complain about base caps.

Well guess what, the lights stopped going after the base and went after you all instead. Where's your god(s) now?

Capping became a chore when the forum's largest whiners got their wish to prolong cap times . As such, the Spiders decided to dish out some payback by biting hard instead.

People here should really be careful of what they ask for.

[Vodrin Thales]

Asian Tupac, on 19 August 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

So the other day I was thinking about this and I tried out a spider to see if lights truly are as OP as people stated. This was my first time ever playing a light mech and bear in mind I had no masteries of any sort. The results speak for themselves.

I guess I was wrong, spiders are just is terribad and not OP in the slightest bit.............
Definitely does NOT need a nerf
/sarcasm

Ya, one kill per match and less than 200 damage per match is pretty OP. I barely averaged twice that while leveling my Yen-Lo (and everyone knows how OP those things are).

[Joseph Mallan]

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Explain why the Eridani Light Horse was able to wage war on numerous planets over 4 centuries in nothing more than light mechs?

Author Fiat?

[Taemien]

Mystere, on 19 August 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Capping became a chore when the forum's largest whiners got their wish to prolong cap times . As such, the Spiders decided to dish out some payback by biting hard instead.

People here should really be careful of what they ask for.

Nah they've been complaining since Closed Beta about Jenners. Yet the most played weight class is assault.

But I do agree with your last sentence. They wanted to be the targets of light mechs, they got it. In fact capping should be easier. I've noticed when going into a base, the enemy runs away, they don't want to fight lol.

[Baddicus Wolf]

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I want Imperius to explain how the Eridani Light Horse and other Light Horse/Striker units in the Battletech Universe were able to wage war for centuries utilizing nothing but light mechs against heavier mechs if they are only able to, "Scout
Mark targets
Capture points
And provide back up, not take the front line and live as they do now and did 6 months ago!"

James The Fox Dixon, on 19 August 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Try again. They regularly went face to face.

http://www.sarna.net...ani_Light_Horse

Read your own link. They had much much more than simply light mechs. Scroll down to the Organization Structure section and look at the 71st. Half of their force is Heavy or Assault, and they only have a total of 4 Light mechs.

Yes, Light Horse regiments are primarily Light/Medium, but never at the exclusion of Heavies or Assaults.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Baddicus Wolf, on 19 August 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Read your own link. They had much much more than simply light mechs. Scroll down to the Organization Structure section and look at the 71st. Half of their force is Heavy or Assault, and they only have a total of 4 Light mechs.

Yes, Light Horse regiments are primarily Light/Medium, but never at the exclusion of Heavies or Assaults.

Actually, their force was the majority of lights. From sarna, "Striker BattleMech regiments were reconnaissance and breakthrough formations. Composed of light-to-medium weight 'Mechs, they also included a Recon company of Land Air 'Mechs, and usually had pairs of ASF assigned for their use."

The TOE images are from Field Manual: SLDF which details the unit from the Second Star League which isn't until 3058. At this point in time, they still had the bulk of their forces as light mechs.

[stjobe]

Taemien, on 19 August 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Nah they've been complaining since Closed Beta about Jenners. Yet the most played weight class is assault.

Which stands to reason, since it's mostly the Assault-only pilots that have trouble with light 'mechs, and tend to complain that lights are OP. It all reminds me of the old "Rock is fine, nerf Scissors" thing for some reason.

[PEEFsmash]

Imperius, on 19 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

So, here is the big issue. I've stated this in the past to fall upon deaf ears. I have solutions to this imbalance not just concerns/complaints; however you want it to be worded.

Light Mechs
They run around at very high speeds, and can carry most of all the weapons any medium or heavy can. Sure they can't carry as many, but it doesn't really matter cause with almost every weapon you fire you only fire them one at a time. They pretty much can an do outrun missiles or they have ECM; so the one weapon that would help half the kill the 80% of high ping ones is useless. Some of the are so short my Atlas can't even shoot them when they are all up in my face. Collisions seem to be turned off still it seems. Also, they are smaller targets. So, I'll break it down to you guys. An heavy class vs a light class pros and cons. They you can give me your opinion on it if you read my post.

Light
+Fast
+Small frame and hit boxes (added bonus high ping)
+Uses same weapons as all mechs there is no "light" version.
+Runs/Jump jets everywhere
+ECM on almost every model of of the lights
+Has more areas for cover and a faster reaction window to avoid DMG
-If hit "if" can die in a few number of shots
-Can't fit as many weapons/ammo on them as a heavy

Heavy
+Carries a lot of weapons
+Lasts a tad but longer in a brawl
-Really slow
-All heavy's are very wide and big aa well as very easy to target and hit, so much so you have to be really bad if you missed
-Can't out run any ECM requires no leading of shots like when fighting a light mech

So I ask you this. Why run anything but a light mech. The pros outweigh cons by far.

Hey hey. Why don't you try running a full team of lights against a standard heavy/assault team, and you will find out why this is easily the most misguided inapplicable theorycraft post I have seen on these forums in months.

#MakeEloPublic

[Ronious]

I've switched out of my Spider and hopped into my Jager and Highlander. I wanted to make sure that I could kill lights. I'm not really having a problem. Which is what I expected. People don't really seem to have a problem turning my Spider into a burning heap. I have mechs with better K/D ratios. My stats are great in my HGN-732 right now. As a matter of fact I'm kinda scared to climb back in the Spider. I watch other pilots and i think, "Is that what I look like? I'm gonna get myself killed."