20 replies to this topic

[BabyHydra]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a52212e3ab8e7ce

Just like the topic says I'm wondering if this is viable for a pure support role in combat?

Edited by BabyHydra, 07 August 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Modo44]

Not enough ammo for so many launchers. You will lose the armor-less legs and ears way too quickly. You want jjs, because every now and then you will need to go up to launch over an obstacle. Try this or this.

[Benjamin Davion]

#1. You look to be new here, so I would like to inculcate a lesson in you before I answer this question: no build is viable independent of its pilot. I would take a good pilot with a Spider with only light weapons than poor pilot in the most firepower-heavy Atlas.

#2. To actually answer the question: You've managed to strap LRM 60 onto a Cat, which I haven't done before and I own them all. Kudos for that. Also kudos for the XL300, a Cat is a whole different animal with an XL. FURTHER kudos for mounting 2 MPLs. You didn't fall into the 'NUTTIN' BUT LURMS LOL' trap. Good job. You also brought a hefty pile of ammunition, but you'll only manage 15 salvos firing them all at once. I would advise against that, however, due to ammunition wastage and the new heat penalties. I would suggest firing two and two, giving you 30 volleys. On the other hand, you could strip the MPLs and swap for regular mediums and mount two more tons of ammo or two more heatsinks or two more tons of armor.

Here's the downsides I see here: you're pretty squishy. You're only carrying half of the possible armor, whereas most of my Cats are maxed or near it. This makes you VERY vulnerable, because when I'm piloting a light, one of my FIRST targets is that missile boat that looks afraid to get close to the fight because he's probably not carrying much armor. You MIGHT be able to survive if you avoid closing with the fight, but inevitably, you will be isolated and alone, and a very hungry Spider pilot will find you. Game up. Secondly, I put JJs on every Cat I can, simply because the boost in mobility is so good. It also helps you manuever when you're being hounded by enterprising lights. Finally, you're not getting the full benefit of those lurms without Artemis. Artemis is truly a must for LRM mechs. It boosts your target acquisition enormously and also decreases the spread of your missiles, making for much more effective hits.

You could run this build and put out massive damage, BUT you'll die quickly. I run my C4 with LRM40, Artemis, full armor, full JJs, and piles of ammo. Surviving longer means you can put out damage for longer, always keep that in mind.

Edited by Benjamin Davion, 06 August 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[BabyHydra]

Benjamin Davion, on 06 August 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

#1. You look to be new here, so I would like to inculcate a lesson in you before I answer this question: no build is viable independent of its pilot. I would take a good pilot with a Spider with only light weapons than poor pilot in the most firepower-heavy Atlas.

#2. To actually answer the question: You've managed to strap LRM 60 onto a Cat, which I haven't done before and I own them all. Kudos for that. Also kudos for the XL300, a Cat is a whole different animal with an XL. FURTHER kudos for mounting 2 MPLs. You didn't fall into the 'NUTTIN' BUT LURMS LOL' trap. Good job. You also brought a hefty pile of ammunition, but you'll only manage 15 salvos firing them all at once. I would advise against that, however, due to ammunition wastage and the new heat penalties. I would suggest firing two and two, giving you 30 volleys. On the other hand, you could strip the MPLs and swap for regular mediums and mount two more tons of ammo or two more heatsinks or two more tons of armor.

Here's the downsides I see here: you're pretty squishy. You're only carrying half of the possible armor, whereas most of my Cats are maxed or near it. This makes you VERY vulnerable, because when I'm piloting a light, one of my FIRST targets is that missile boat that looks afraid to get close to the fight because he's probably not carrying much armor. You MIGHT be able to survive if you avoid closing with the fight, but inevitably, you will be isolated and alone, and a very hungry Spider pilot will find you. Game up. Secondly, I put JJs on every Cat I can, simply because the boost in mobility is so good. It also helps you manuever when you're being hounded by enterprising lights. Finally, you're not getting the full benefit of those lurms without Artemis. Artemis is truly a must for LRM mechs. It boosts your target acquisition enormously and also decreases the spread of your missiles, making for much more effective hits.

You could run this build and put out massive damage, BUT you'll die quickly. I run my C4 with LRM40, Artemis, full armor, full JJs, and piles of ammo. Surviving longer means you can put out damage for longer, always keep that in mind.

Awesome thank you both! Looking at it now I guess this will be a troll build I pull with friends but if im just going to be running to LRM 20s is there a point in still getting the c4?

Edited by BabyHydra, 07 August 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Davoke]

Yes, the Cat can mount 20's, in addition to something like backup SRM4 or SSRM2 launchers for point defense, alternatively, paired 10's with Artemis can be absolutely vicious when engaging in combat with a direct line of sight. But like Benjamin said, you're thinking outside of the box, and with ingenuity and experience, you'll start making some interesting and lethal builds as you get better at the game. Best of luck, and keep on blowing away mechs.

[BabyHydra]

Thanks Davoke! Here's another build not sure if I should get a smaller engine for more armor and ammo or keep it the way it is... hmmm...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a52212e3ab8e7ce

[Crimson Dux]

It's not viable unless you are expecting to have your team working only for you.

As a LRM boat you need to go to a good position, get lock, shoot and maintain the damn lock for more time that you would like to until you hit. All of this under fire (normally). Forget our team, they are not going to maintain a lock for you (on purpose) for more the 5sec.
You can go by two approach:
shooting from far away-> have to reduce locking time (BAP, target info gathering), faster LRM (artemis), more lock time (target decay)
shooting close (and brawling the enemy)-> big fast engine, MPL (or LL/LPL), JJ, a lot of armor everywhere! Diapers and a prayer book are optional but useful.

So your survivability depend on dumping and hitting the enemy very fast while avoiding a dual ERPPC+gauss or 5tons of enemy LRMs in the face.


See this.

Let me go point by point about this build with you:
Armor-> You cannot sacrifice armor on your front. And the arms are your raison d'être, do you really want to loose them? The leg armor is a gamble, with luck no enemy light will go near you and leg you in 1/2 shoot.
I like to have armor to at least sustain a AC20 shoot.
With your build? You are going to die after the 1st sniper or LRM boat see you.

LRM-> 4 LRM15 is too much. Too wasteful of ammo if you miss, too hot.

ML-> You need tonnage for ammo and armor. Those are secondary weapons. You are not going to use them because you want to, only because you need to; so your mech will probably be already very hot from the LRMs. ML are cooler then MPL and you can still do something at close combat. All depend on your play style...

JJ-> get into a good position on the top of something. Need to take cover? Let yourself fall on the back. The Cat loose speed at 25º inclination on the terrain (or at 20º, don't recall), jump over those.
Great for brawling, let you be more agile. You need a lot of armor in the legs for this.

AMS-> A must. You are going to take a lot of LRM in the face.

BAP-> more range, more info, faster lock (If I recall correctly).

AMMO-> not stellar but, frankly at the end, you will fight on close quarters. Or you will be dead. Either way you will probably have a couple of tons left is you control yourself in the beginning of the game and don't wast a lot of ammo.

Engine-> You just need to go from your base to where you want to shoot from. Bigger engine are very good on a brawler cat, but you are not one of those. If they come near you, you are a goner. Your only hope is that rescue will come while you are jumping around or that the other guy is completely cored from your missiles.
And you don't have tonnage for something bigger, so...

Edited by Crimson Dux, 07 August 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[BabyHydra]

Crimson Dux, on 07 August 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's not viable unless you are expecting to have your team working only for you.

As a LRM boat you need to go to a good position, get lock, shoot and maintain the damn lock for more time that you would like to until you hit. All of this under fire (normally). Forget our team, they are not going to maintain a lock for you (on purpose) for more the 5sec.
You can go by two approach:
shooting from far away-> have to reduce locking time (BAP, target info gathering), faster LRM (artemis), more lock time (target decay)
shooting close (and brawling the enemy)-> big fast engine, MPL (or LL/LPL), JJ, a lot of armor everywhere! Diapers and a prayer book are optional but useful.

So your survivability depend on dumping and hitting the enemy very fast while avoiding a dual ERPPC+gauss or 5tons of enemy LRMs in the face.


See this.

Let me go point by point about this build with you:
Armor-> You cannot sacrifice armor on your front. And the arms are your raison d'être, do you really want to loose them? The leg armor is a gamble, with luck no enemy light will go near you and leg you in 1/2 shoot.
I like to have armor to at least sustain a AC20 shoot.
With your build? You are going to die after the 1st sniper or LRM boat see you.

LRM-> 4 LRM15 is too much. Too wasteful of ammo if you miss, too hot.

ML-> You need tonnage for ammo and armor. Those are secondary weapons. You are not going to use them because you want to, only because you need to; so your mech will probably be already very hot from the LRMs. ML are cooler then MPL and you can still do something at close combat. All depend on your play style...

JJ-> get into a good position on the top of something. Need to take cover? Let yourself fall on the back. The Cat loose speed at 25º inclination on the terrain (or at 20º, don't recall), jump over those.
Great for brawling, let you be more agile. You need a lot of armor in the legs for this.

AMS-> A must. You are going to take a lot of LRM in the face.

BAP-> more range, more info, faster lock (If I recall correctly).

AMMO-> not stellar but, frankly at the end, you will fight on close quarters. Or you will be dead. Either way you will probably have a couple of tons left is you control yourself in the beginning of the game and don't wast a lot of ammo.

Engine-> You just need to go from your base to where you want to shoot from. Bigger engine are very good on a brawler cat, but you are not one of those. If they come near you, you are a goner. Your only hope is that rescue will come while you are jumping around or that the other guy is completely cored from your missiles.
And you don't have tonnage for something bigger, so...

Hey crimson thanks for the feed back I'm going to end up labeling that build as a troll when I play with friends but here's a more "standard" build I think!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a52212e3ab8e7ce

[NickFury271]

Here are my two favorite Cat builds that I am using right now. Both have long range punch with Artemis and some close to mid-range backup if the fight should come to me. You also definitely want to make sure your CT armor is good and beefy as on the Cats it is such a huge target.

CPLT-C1

CPLT-C4

[ShadowbaneX]

I take the CPLT-C4 more for the extra missile hard points than the 20-tube launchers. 2 x 15x+Artemis will give you a good missile volley. This also allows you to put in a pair of Streak SRM2s with one ton of ammo. Paired Medium Lasers in the CT, AMS with one ton of ammo, and a pair of Jump Jets. Also, a Beagle Active Probe both for extending your sensor range and reducing lock on times and for countering ECM for those lights that will eventually jump you.

You can do similar with the CPLT-C1 but instead of the Streaks mount an extra ML and a TAG system.

[Spiketail Drake]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa2eb07bd7d00cc << how is this? You cold drop the JJ's for either two heatsinks of two more tons of LRM ammo.

[Rakona]

based on my experience, I disagree with most of the builds here to a small degree. you don't need the extra heat sinks to chain fire the lrms, only when you're popping off everything you have. While the extra speed of the 300 XL is helpful, I find it to be too much for my opinion, and I drop it to the xl 280 to add more ammo/dps. If you look at the paper doll dps and damage out put, 2 lrm 20s w/ artemis will out do lrm 15 x2 and lrm 10 x2. Armor should be maxed out everyplace but the legs, which I use to find spare tonnage. You can put the .5 tons back on the legs if you want, i decided to use it for C.A.S.E. on the side torso just for something to do. You can also drop a ton of ammo and use that .5 tons to put on a B.A.P. Totally up to you, but I would not go with much less than 1440 lrm ammo, and I've found 2 JJ gets me on top of most obstacles I've found, though I mainly use them for quick turns vs. lights to screw up their pretty little circles.

ams
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...947ee21855d299d

B.A.P
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...139b2fcf1fa007e

Edited by Rakona, 19 August 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[Erata]

General gameplay tips for LRMing!

Always stay near your group. Always. However, stay about 200 m behind them. LRMs have a hard minimum range of 180 m. Any closer to an enemy and all your missiles will do ZERO DAMAGE to a target. Being 200 m behind your group enables you to target enemies that show up.

By staying with the group, you can also make sure you are targeting enemies that are actually exposed to ensure hits.

I almost want to recommend that you could drop AMS for more missile ammo and possibly drop down to normal medium lasers so you can put a third medium laser in, but that's up to you.

Jumpjets help a lot. They can enable you to dodge sniper shots and take the damage on your legs instead of your torso and arms, also they can help you maintain line of sight locks on enemies that are retreating!

I do not recommend getting BAP as people are saying even though it affects your lock time. You would be better served with a TAG laser since it affects lock time plus, unlike BAP (due to BAP's effective range... It disables ECM at like 160?meters, well inside the range where missiles become disabled) will enable you to lock onto ECM bots and tag them for your team. If you are somehow able to use both BAP and ECM, then go for it, but if it came down to one choice, use TAG instead and rely on team targeting in addition to your own targeting discretion.

Edited by Erata, 19 August 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Rakona]

Erata, on 19 August 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

General gameplay tips for LRMing!

Always stay near your group. Always. However, stay about 200 m behind them. LRMs have a hard minimum range of 180 m. Any closer to an enemy and all your missiles will do ZERO DAMAGE to a target. Being 200 m behind your group enables you to target enemies that show up.

By staying with the group, you can also make sure you are targeting enemies that are actually exposed to ensure hits.

I almost want to recommend that you could drop AMS for more missile ammo and possibly drop down to normal medium lasers so you can put a third medium laser in, but that's up to you.

Jumpjets help a lot. They can enable you to dodge sniper shots and take the damage on your legs instead of your torso and arms, also they can help you maintain line of sight locks on enemies that are retreating!

I do not recommend getting BAP as people are saying even though it affects your lock time. You would be better served with a TAG laser since it affects lock time plus, unlike BAP (due to BAP's effective range...) will enable you to lock onto ECM bots and tag them for your team. If you are somehow able to use both BAP and ECM, then go for it, but if it came down to one choice, use TAG instead and rely on team targeting in addition to your own targeting discretion.

Very good points here, and I totally agree with the use of TAG on the C1, but on the C4, there are only 2 E slots, and my opinion is that it would limit point defense too much to have only 1 ML. Best of both worlds is if a team mate is carrying a TAG, which normally gets use if announced on team chat at the first of the game if there, or if you have both, which I do on my C1.

Erata - solid advice.

[VIPER2207]

i run mine with something like this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02bc7c9c9f54cf5

i'm not at home right now, so i can't copy the exact build... but it is something like this... you can fire both your launchers in one salvo, using all your tubes, have enough ammo to last a whole match of LRM-Spamming, and a PPC+2ML for assistance

i realy like this one, it's my favourite cat-build

[BulletChief]

mine runs great with this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...85351412a353c4c

although i drop 1 medlaser fora tag most of the time.

[DONTOR]

pretty good support build. lose the heatshink in your engine u wont need it. add a ton of ammo. loss the ams and ammo. add half ton of armor and another jump jet.

[Phantomime]

this is generally what i like to run..

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e5ac21103ca7692

very sustained dps with the ssrms for helping to deal with high mobility lights. the llas stops when heat gets up there and the damage from the mplas+ssrm's is great for harrassing lights.

with all of the unlocks it runs pretty well, just wondering if there is more i could be getting out of it.. a 2nd build i have liked is similar dropping the larges for a bigger engine and 4x mplas. the ssrm's are also swapped out with 2xsrm4's if im feeling im dealing less with lights and more with annoying md's or hv's as games go by...

[Ivaneus]

Strangely enough I think I tend to run a bit more oddly than most other Catapults out there. I tend to stick with the stock loadout and just slap upgrades on. Here are the builds I currently use on my C1 and C4:

Siege Engine

Y-Wing

I play the Catapult as a second line Fire Support vehicle. I feel that the butter zone for LRMs is a distracted target between 200 and 500 Meters away and getting line of sight is even better since it allows me to bring my Lasers to bear on the target too.

Once my Ammo is exhausted I move into the fray proper as a second wave and bring some relief for my allies in the form of a mostly fresh new target in shiny eye catching paint. And I keep more armor on the C4's Missile boxes rather than the legs because the boxes are quite a bit bigger than those on a C1 or A1, and it has 4/6 Weapon systems there . . .

And I can honestly say that I am not a fan of the TAG simply because I believe that you can never have too many Medium Lasers.

[Rakona]

So I've actually adjusted my C4 since this started, and moved away from the lrm 20's to 4 x lrm 10's. While it does so smaller amounts of damage, i've found the tracking appears to be better, heat management is better (ONLY chain fire), and you can cut a salvo short if you lose the lock and save the missiles. I wish i could have another laser, but the tag is WAY too useful. The lrm 10s also rock the living hell out of cockpits, so it helps your own team live that much more by always having birds in the air.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c033586168f5fda