103 replies to this topic

[Anders]

#saveMWO Community Town Hall

Discussion thread

Gentlemen and other posters of this thread:

I needn't remind you that this is a safe space for discussion on all things related to the above topic. I will not tolerate any violation's of the CoC, terms of service, and the like. This is not to say that I am not tolerant of dissenting opinion - this is precisely why this thread is here, and it is for the purpose of community outreach and a healthy discussion of the game, it's successes and it's shortcomings.

If you feel that a poster is making you upset, do not respond - you are letting them win. If you are posting in this thread to troll or derail it, your opinion and commentary is much appreciated and valued and we thank you for your passion regarding this game, which is something that we all share. If you have cogent points to make, make them, and use those limited entertainment electrons in the best way possible. I trust that you can all behave like rational adults in this thread.

Prove me right. If you are unsure how you should post without getting into trouble, just think to yourself, "How Would Andersbot Post?" or "HWAP?". It will get you through the angry times.

Below are links to previous content if you wish to catch yourself up on what has occurred previously. Your arguments and opinions will have greater weight if we're all on the same page with what has previously been discussed and debated.

Official Links

• The Town Hall audio stream
  
• The Letter (Sign it!)
  
• The Signatures (so far!)
  
• The original thread (for reference)
  
• The second Thread (also for reference)

More Content!

• The Start of the Twitter recap by MWO ComStar

Please keep things civil and bad posts to a minimum. For the sake of the sanity of the mods, if for nothing else


UPDATE:

In addition to having more individuals signing the letter, we now have 26 groups signed up, some of them representing the largest organized groups currently playing MWO. These groups represent a little over 5000 players (I'm missing good unit counts on some of them, which I've left blank until I can confirm them. In the meantime, I've counted them based on my most recent available information):

EDIT: Unit leads, PM me if you want to be added to this list or if you have a correction/addition to your unit count.
Community Members (click to view signatures - 1045 as of 8/14/13 @ 12:12 AM EDT)
PM Anders on the MWO forums if you are a unit or community leader and want to sign on behalf of your group.

In addition, the below 26 groups have signed, representing over 5000 MWO players

• Victor Morson, on behalf of the Blazing Aces (~40 members)
  
• Miekael, on behalf of The Fallen (~10 members)
  
• Lord Ikka, on behalf of the 9th Sword of the Dragon (~100 members)
  
• Stingr4y, on behalf of FWLM (~200 members)
  
• JSArrakis, on behalf of cReddit (~200 members)
  
• Anders, on behalf of the Word of Lowtax (~1500 members)
  
• MausGMR, on behalf of Clan Smoke Jaguar - Beta Galaxy (~20 members)
  
• jrgong, on behalf of the 25th Marik Militia
  
• GaussDragon, on behalf of KaoS Legion (~50 members)
  
• Stalephreak, on behalf of Zero Fox Mercs (~10 members)
  
• Durkan and Kerbango, on behalf of Last Mech Standing (~1000 players)
  
• Protection and Hylius, on behalf of Eridani Light Pony Merc Corp (~200 members)
  
• G.L. von Bluecher, on behalf of the 1st Royal Guards (~200 members)
  
• Aylward, on behalf of the 1st HeadHunters of Davion RCT (~500 members)
  
• EndGam8968, on behalf of the Omega Defense Corps
  
• Otonashi Saya, on behalf of Ryuken-Ni-Sorei
  
• Wolfp, on behalf of ZhiZhu Merc Corps (~80 members)
  
• DV McKenna, on behalf of Clan Snow Raven
  
• DrAmnesia, on behalf of the MWO Arena League (~150 players)
  
• Wild Hog, on behalf of the 6th RCT
  
• Bluemaxx, on behalf of ARMD (~400 members)
  
• Trev Firestorm, on behalf of Thunder Mountain Forces (~10 members)
  
• GMan129, on behalf of Cerberus
  
• FileTitan, on behalf of the Ghost Warriors Brigade
  
• Drangon Lee, on behalf of the Confrerie Black Dragon (~20 members)
  
• DCM Zeus, on behalf of the Luna Wolves (~100 members)
  
• DLS, on behalf of Bnl Merc Corps
  
• Gremlich Johns, on behalf of the Blood Spirits
  
• Team Leader, on behalf of the Heavy Metal Brigade (~80 members)
  
• Di Tar, on behalf of RavenWood (~90 members)
  
• Siriothrax, on behalf of Steel Jaguar Reborn (~25 members)

As always I remain:

Robotically Yours,
Anders

Edited by Anders, 19 August 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[DonVincenzo]

I would +1 this endlessly, instead I'm just gonna like your post. Remember guys... Only fight the good fight.

[MechFrog1]

I have great hope for MWO. I know it can be something awesome that we can all be proud of.

[Windies]

TBH it's up to PGI now. I fully support the idea behind this, I like how it's being handled thus far, but we can pretty much discuss and argue and talk until we are blue in the face. It's not going to change anything unless we can get PGI to listen or give them a reason to want to listen.

[Uba]

In Andersbot we trust.

[Stalkerr]

For those who thought the thread was lacking good ideas:

• Improve the new player experience by providing a sandbox for new players that puts them into smaller 4v4 battles, where they have more chances to make mistakes and learn from them. Oh, and context-sensitive popup help tips. Lots of them. With BB voiceovers.
  
• Lobbies for teams to coordinate drops together.
  
• Rebalancing pass for all weapons and systems.
  
• Reevaluation of complex systems, such as Ghost Heat, which have a high level of technical debt associated with them.

[Savitry]

This moment in time is one of the best moments because #saveMWO is a net positive in this, our limited electron space.

[Texas Merc]

1. Do NOT get mad at video games

2. Never not HWAP

3. #saveMWO

[N0MAD]

I believe a Tutorial is being worked on as we speak, thats great news, hoping a chat lobby is being built into UI2 (its really needed).
By far the one thing that i think will retain and bring back most players is a match making lobby. It will give the game longevity and the player base will itself recruit new players and help retain the new players that have difficulties being on their own, this was amply demonstrated in all the previous MW titles.
Balance is an ongoing thing so a direct line of communication (respectful) with the devs on a regular basis i think is a must for both Devs and players.

[DisasterMedic]

The problem is we don't know what form the tutorial is going to take. Seeing as No Payment No Podcast guys are involved, I'm afraid it's going to be a YouTube series instead of anything in-game. It's a band-aid, but not the solution we are going to ultimately need.

However, due to the lack of any meaningful communication about things to come, this is pure speculation. It's almost like being kept in the dark prevents us from giving any feedback before things are put in place.

[SirDubDub]

Private Matchmaking is listed as "in development" on the content tracker. Does anyone know any further details?

[Literally]

I think the single most important change to make is bringing game change ideas to the forums BEFORE committing to them, so that players can give feedback on concepts.

I think the most important feature to add for everyone is a good tutorial system, so that we retain more players and help them improve.

The most important feature change to me personally, though, is getting rid of ghost heat and ghost damage. These systems are unwieldy and unclear. What we need is balanced weapon and armor stats instead. Always try XML changes first.

[SirDubDub]

Aw Hell with it.

The previous threads on this movement included posts in which people claimed that dissenting voices were not present at these town halls despite their invitation. Speaking only for myself (I did sit in on the first meeting live, and went back for the second's recording) I did not speak up in the meeting or in the discussion threads partially for fear of being shouted down, and partially because I felt that my voice in the debate may have sparked more personal attacks against myself or others who are like-minded, which would have diluted the message of the meeting by adding an unnecessary layer of drama and vitriol. While the meetings themselves seemed to be quite positive/even-keeled, it was disheartening to see the discussion threads devolve into this kind of mudslinging by folks of all points of view regarding #savemwo.



The Garth was right, guys. We're better than this. We're all better than this. All sides, all points of view, and all positions of power.


Therefore, in the hopes of a truly productive discussion for a truly productive movement, I offer my support as loyal opposition.

MY POSITION
Is MWO perfect?: Of course not
Is MWO flawed?: Yes, sometimes deeply, and sometimes slightly
Are any of these flaws fatal?: No
Does MWO need a competitive player revolution to save it?: No
Would MWO benefit from an elected group of player advocates: Yes
Would I sign the #savemwo petition as it currently stands?: No
Is PGI/IGP perfect?: No
Did PGI/IGP overpromise on a number of issues?: YES
Did PGI eat my baby/are an utterly incompotent developer?: No
Any other positions I hold, but am witholding for brevity's sake/ you guys get the picture?: Bacon is delicious


Now. I disagree with you guys on many issues, but that does not mean I don't respect you, or think that you are wrong. I am perfectly willing to discuss valid arguments on the merits of what we know and what we can expect. I swear on my knight's honor to refrain from any hyperbolic or personal attacks, and will do my best to use HWAP at all times.


Signed: A Loyal Dissident


[TLDR - I disagree with you guys, but let's not be {Richard Camerons} about it this time]

Edited by SirDubDub, 19 August 2013 - 08:39 PM.

[theGerf]

I think it's unfortunate that no matter what the proposed changes, updates, or features are, they will be buried in negative feedback. Reasons always vary - some of it's grognardy, some disagree at the need based on their experience at their level of play, some are just plain old gamer's vitriol. There's no end for the reasons, but it drowns out the chance for constructive criticism or discussion.

If anything, I hope the #savemwo community can bring together representatives from every level of play, with a variety of player types, and allow a constructive area where all parties can actually have some two-way discussion and feedback. It seems like there was a lot more of this back in closed beta, and it would be nice if such a thing could happen again.

[Dustmuffins]

Saw a comment on Reddit that I think would be a really good idea for this game.

They mentioned having polls on the launcher. If done correctly this could really help PGI to get a finger on the pulse of the community and help them make informed decisions on their patches.

You would have access to 100% of the playerbase, so no "vocal minority". You could even offer cbill rewards for voting (make sure to include an abstain option so results don't get skewed by people just voting for money!)

PGI could weigh votes by games played/elo to help make informed decisions as well.

People could present ideas on the forum and the team could use the "like" system to determine which questions to put in the patcher. The top 5 or so could be on the patcher for the next week/2 weeks until a new vote is held.

Please do something like this PGI. It would really help you guys out.

Edited by Dustmuffins, 19 August 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[Miekael]

I read the same earlier Dustmuffins, and it does indeed sound like a great idea that could be done.

[Gwaihir]

That's a nice collection method, given that most everyone hits the launcher before hitting "play." I think the biggest current issue isn't ability to collect feedback, it's whether they think they even need it/whether the people that matter actually listen to it. (Or dismiss it as 'noise').

[Destructicus]

Thanks for fighting the good fight all
It goes without saying that what happened in the last thread was disgusting, but I won't dwell on it and neither should any of you.
We can't let things like that distract us from whats important

[Dustmuffins]

Gwaihir, on 19 August 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

I think the biggest current issue isn't ability to collect feedback, it's whether they think they even need it/whether the people that matter actually listen to it. (Or dismiss it as 'noise').

I think that if they were to actually put in the work to implement a system like this, it would at least help give them feedback and they wouldn't entirely dismiss it. Certainly not like the sad state of the current game balance forum.

[Miekael]

SirDubDub, on 19 August 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

....

You have the same general disposition as the rest of us in your statement that the game is not perfect and can improve. I liked your post because I felt it was very well written and thought out. I hope that you continue to share and discuss your opinions with us, even if you feel that we are wrong. I also hope that you can see, we just want a better game, and that is why we signed the letter. Specifics as to what makes a better game is something a lot of us still don't agree upon, but we would like to work with each other as opposed to against each other to find a happy medium that would be better for the community as a whole. Hope to see more post like this in the future.