47 replies to this topic

[TheBossHammer]

I'm being dead serious, as funny as this suggestion is: is there any chance that the 3PV drone could be made destructible, so that FPV players can force 3PV players to switch modes once the fighting starts? Personally I'd be totally ok with 3PV if this was the case because if someone is using it, I can punish them for it, but a new player will have time to figure out his mech in 3PV and get his bearings at the start of the match and players can look at their paintjob until they close to within range.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 20 August 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

That would completely defeat the whole purpose of implementing 3PV in the first place.

The easiest and best solution would be to not to bother with 3PV at all. But since that option is not on the table, all we can do is simply not play in the 3PV/1PV queue. Just play in the 1PV only queue.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 20 August 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Velixo]

3rd person was designed for newbies to let them manuever more easily. Destructable 3PV would just ruin the game for them.

Bhael Fire, on 20 August 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

...all we can do is simply not play in the 3PV/1PV queue. Just play in the 1PV only queue.

Wait, what? Where did this information about a queue come from?

Edited by Velixo, 20 August 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[TheBossHammer]

Bhael Fire, on 20 August 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

That would completely defeat the whole purpose of implementing 3PV in the first place.

How so? Last I checked 3PV was there to let a player look at his mech and to allow a new player to get their bearings and understand how to pilot their death machine, both of which typically happen before any bullets/missiles/doomlasers fly. The main gripe that 99.999999% of players have with 3PV is corner peeking, and if I can shoot out the drone as it pops over a hill, the most someone can do that is exactly once.

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

3rd person was designed for newbies to let them manuever more easily. Destructable 3PV would just ruin the game for them.

Except it wouldn't. They'd get how their legs work within the first 10 seconds of the game, and when the drone gets popped, they immediately pop back into the cockpit with an understanding of how the mech works. A better HUD in FPV that told you where your legs are pointed would help as well.

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Wait, what? Where did this information about a queue come from?

He's right. However, that means a split queue and a split playerbase, which is the other huge complaint of the FPV people.

[Bhael Fire]

TheBossHammer, on 20 August 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

[size=4]
How so? Last I checked 3PV was there to let a player look at his mech and to allow a new player to get their bearings and understand how to pilot their death machine, both of which typically happen before any bullets/missiles/doomlasers fly.

No, it would defeat the purpose because if a new player is derping around in 3PV then all of a sudden was forced into 1PV (for reasons unknown to them) they might as well just start off in 1PV and get used to it.

It's all or nothing. There's absolutely no reason to implement it, if it's not to be used primarily as "training wheels" that the player can take off whenever they want to...not when another player decides to take them off for them.

[Bhael Fire]

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Wait, what? Where did this information about a queue come from?

In public test they had two separate queues.

[TheBossHammer]

Bhael Fire, on 20 August 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

It's all or nothing. There's absolutely no reason to implement it, if it's not to be used primarily as "training wheels" that the player can take off whenever they want to...not when another player decides to take them off for them.

But the intent doesn't determine reality. What is actually going to happen is that the playerbase will be split, as old time players migrate to the 3PV queue to pubstomp using 3PV to look around corners while the noobs get punished by their own training wheels. All 3PV is supposed to do is give the new player a way to see how their legs move, right of the bat. It should NEVER be allowed in combat in any form, because it will wreck the experience for new players more than it will help if it exists.

Putting everyone in one queue and limiting 3PV by making the drone vulnerable would solve that problem. It's not the intent that's the issue, it's what the jerks in the community are going to do with this feature that is the problem.

It's like what happened in MOH:AA way back in the day (that's medal of honor, allied assault). That game had a rudimentary 3PV hack that allowed good players to wallhug on most of the levels and get 100 killstreaks going because they always had the jump. Good players could deal with it, but noobs ran in and got slaughtered.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 20 August 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[Velixo]

TheBossHammer, on 20 August 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

[size=4]
Except it wouldn't. They'd get how their legs work within the first 10 seconds of the game, and when the drone gets popped, they immediately pop back into the cockpit with an understanding of how the mech works.

I invited a friend to try out the game, explained to him about the torso-leg mechanics, and showed him the leg indicator on the minimap; he understood the concept, crystal clear. But the problem was putting it into practice, he was as clumsy as a baby learning how to walk. We played 10 matches, he still had big trouble with it.

Edited by Velixo, 20 August 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Karyudo ds]

Bhael Fire, on 20 August 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The easiest and best solution would be to not to bother with 3PV at all.

Just like all the other Mechwarrior games! Er, wait... well technically it would be easiest solution...unless the problem was getting new players to understand this whole Mechwarrior thing without setting down the controls in 2 seconds. There are third person evils, but I'm guessing a lot of "veteran" players started with one of the Mechwarrior games that featured this 3PV. I didn't use it playing online with MW2, but I remember it playing single player which I did for a good while before going online.

TheBossHammer, on 20 August 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

How so? Last I checked 3PV was there to let a player look at his mech and to allow a new player to get their bearings and understand how to pilot their death machine, both of which typically happen before any bullets/missiles/doomlasers fly. The main gripe that 99.999999% of players have with 3PV is corner peeking, and if I can shoot out the drone as it pops over a hill, the most someone can do that is exactly once.

I agree with the idea of shooting the drones down but if we're going to the effort of having a 3PV in the first place you really have to explain to the player why they're suddenly forced into 1PV and then just eliminating the 3PV option for the entire match after that? Would almost be like forcing missile bay doors to stay open...a lot like that what with the lack of good indication anyway.

Again I do like the idea, but if we're going to apply logic to this space magic then I should be smart enough to pack extra drones. Just add a cool down so that I'm not looking over walls 2 seconds later. Though on that note I still wish drones would give away what was using them and if they were alone. Kills most of the information warfare when you trade information instead.

[TheBossHammer]

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

I invited a friend to try out the game, explained to him about the torso-leg mechanics, and showed him the leg indicator on the minimap; he understood it, crystal clear. We played 10 matches, he still had big trouble with it.

That's a HUD problem. I still have problems with that and I've been playing since closed beta. It's why experienced players run into walls without meaning to. 3PV wasn't meant to solve that and still won't solve that, it'll only solve the player's ability to understand how the a and d buttons turn the legs of the mech.

[Bhael Fire]

TheBossHammer, on 20 August 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

But the intent doesn't determine reality. What is actually going to happen is that the playerbase will be split, as old time players migrate to the 3PV queue to pubstomp using 3PV to look around corners while the noobs get punished by their own training wheels. All 3PV is supposed to do is give the new player a way to see how their legs move, right of the bat. It should NEVER be allowed in combat in any form, because it will wreck the experience for new players more than it will help if it exists.

Exactly why I think it's slippery slope PGI has taken.

http://mwomercs.com/...hardcore-modes/

[Velixo]

Bhael Fire, on 20 August 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

In public test they had two separate queues.

InnerSphereNews, on 20 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

• Third Person View:
  
  • In the options menu is a "Start In Third Person" option to determine which view you start each match in
    
    • By default, this option is toggled on (to start games in third person view)
  • When you are in third person view, Arm Lock is turned on and cannot be turned off
    
  • When you are in third person view, the lance and minimap HUD elements are not available
    
  • When you are in third person view, there is a camera drone hovering behind you that other players can see
    
  • By default, you can press F4 to toggle between third and first person view
    
    • This key can be rebound in the options menu
  • You cannot switch views while your Mech is shut down

Qouted from http://mwomercs.com/...ay-august-20th/
Doesn't sound like a queue :S

[TheBossHammer]

Karyudo ds, on 20 August 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I agree with the idea of shooting the drones down but if we're going to the effort of having a 3PV in the first place you really have to explain to the player why they're suddenly forced into 1PV and then just eliminating the 3PV option for the entire match after that? Would almost be like forcing missile bay doors to stay open...a lot like that what with the lack of good indication anyway.

Again I do like the idea, but if we're going to apply logic to this space magic then I should be smart enough to pack extra drones. Just add a cool down so that I'm not looking over walls 2 seconds later. Though on that note I still wish drones would give away what was using them and if they were alone. Kills most of the information warfare when you trade information instead.

A video that played on a player's first run would suffice. Don't even need a tutorial, just tell them right off the bat: here's your keys, this one toggles your view. If you use 3rd person, be aware, your drone can be shot down and you'll lose your 3PV. It's the price of modern technology and blahblahblahblah etc. It actually would be a good way to give the game some personality beyond the giant robots, something that it kinda needs right now.

Also, the second half of that is good, but that cooldown would have to be long, otherwise good players would start counting the cooldown and we'd be in League of Legends territory.

[Velixo]

TheBossHammer, on 20 August 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

That's a HUD problem. I still have problems with that and I've been playing since closed beta. It's why experienced players run into walls without meaning to. 3PV wasn't meant to solve that and still won't solve that, it'll only solve the player's ability to understand how the a and d buttons turn the legs of the mech.

Yeah, it's there to explain the A and D buttons but also remind them about them. It's easy to forget the turning mechanics once things get hectic, and the easiest reminder is to see it for yourself.

Edited by Velixo, 20 August 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[TheBossHammer]

Bhael Fire, on 20 August 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Exactly why I think it's slippery slope PGI has taken.

http://mwomercs.com/...hardcore-modes/

We're in complete agreement here. I'm just trying to find a way to reign things in before they get out of hand, and this seemed like a cheeky way to do it.

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Qouted from http://mwomercs.com/...ay-august-20th/
Doesn't sound like a queue :S

That worries me...they did say it would be split into queues a while ago...well, suddenly my suggestion seems a little more necessary.

[TheBossHammer]

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yeah, it's there to explain the A and D buttons but also remind them about them. It's easy to forget the turning mechanics once things get hectic, and the easiest reminder is to see it for yourself.

Great, they're reminded of the A and D buttons constantly. A polygonal 3d model of your mech in your hud would do the same thing and not eat that much processing power, it's what the old Mechwarrior games did with your target but it would work even better for the player.

And again, yes they'd get piloting faster, but they'd also be learning to play against opponents that can see around walls. That's bad.

[Bhael Fire]

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Doesn't sound like a queue :S

They haven't implemented "hardcore mode" yet that was in public test. There were two queues.

[Velixo]

TheBossHammer, on 20 August 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Great, they're reminded of the A and D buttons constantly. A polygonal 3d model of your mech in your hud would do the same thing and not eat that much processing power, it's what the old Mechwarrior games did with your target but it would work even better for the player.

That does sound very interesting, but how would that be implemented without taking up too much screen space while simultaneously being "there" enough to allow a new player to be aware of both the battle and his torso/legs?

[Ryvucz]

No

[TheBossHammer]

Velixo, on 20 August 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

That does sound very interesting, but how would that be implemented without taking up too much screen space while simultaneously being "there" enough to allow a new player to be aware of both the battle and his torso/legs?

You know how there are cosmetic mech bobble heads available? Well, that's kinda what I had in mind. The model would be like a holo display floating on your dashboard that could be replaced with any one of the cosmetic ones that PGI has if you want it to look prettier, but it would be on the other side of your cockpit, a little lower on the screen and facing the other way so that the cosmetic one could still have it's purpose.

Ryvucz, on 20 August 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

No

You added so much to this conversation...