85 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

why not just add increase the modifer to the formula used for engine twist speed/mech turn speed.

seems like a much much better solution than arbitrarily increasing only the torso twist rate of all medium mechs.

why not work with the roots.

Edited by Tennex, 20 August 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Nebelfeuer]

Dear PGI,
pls give mediums movement modifiers: better speed, better a-/decceleration, turnspeed in order to make them claim the the spot between lights and heavys again. The modiefiers should preferably be a fixed value and not percentagebased on the enginesize to get an even result. The increased pitch is kind of nice but the increased Torsoturningspeed was a) not really needed and b ) does greatly vary in effectiveness depending on hardpointallocation and build(eg for LRM Treb builds - the intended role of that mech- it is basically totally worthless while centurion zombibuilds do profit quite nicely).

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 20 August 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[arghmace]

From the patch notes:

Quote

HBK-4G:
Torso pitch angle remains at 25 degrees

arghmace, on 20 August 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

It is currently 16 so does it remain at that or is it increased to 25?

Since answers are impossible to get, I tested this. All Hunchies seem to have the same torso pitch. I used an Atlas with 16 deg pitch and a Cent with 25 deg pitch as reference. All Hunchies hit the middle so I guess they all have 20 deg pitch now. So why exactly is HBK-4G differentiated in the patch notes? The only difference was that one false sentence.

[P4riah1]

Medium mechs didn't need pitch, or twist speed. A few mechs needed twist angle, but the only mech that got any, the Hunchback, didn't need it at all. What medium mechs needed was turn speed and accell/decel speed.

[Doctor Proctor]

P4riah1, on 20 August 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Medium mechs didn't need pitch, or twist speed. A few mechs needed twist angle, but the only mech that got any, the Hunchback, didn't need it at all. What medium mechs needed was turn speed and accell/decel speed.

You know though, after playing with it a bit more, maybe the twist angle on the Hunch was meant as a huge buff. I don't need back armor anymore as I was almost able to turn 180 degrees to shoot at a Cent behind me in HBK-4P! Perhaps that's the real buff here?

[AussieGiant]

Dunne, on 20 August 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Changing the pitch angles and turning speeds help, but people aren't going to be playing mediums with any competative seriousness until you get Drop Limits into play. Once people can no longer run forces of 6 Assault Mechs, 2 Heavies, and 4 jumping lights, THEN you'll start seeing folks play Mediums, regularly. Then Heavies of all sizes will be the majority on the battlefield. Then folks will play Commandos and Locusts (when they're released) seriously, instead of as gimmik builds or nostalgia.

We need drop-limits; everything else is secondary until that is in-play.

You've had a year. You now have a month.

Get on it.

Chop-chop.

I can't emphasis enough how important this is.

Mediums without the meta game are exactly that...between a light and a heavy and therefore no real use. Put the meta game back in with rearm and repair plus drop limits and suddenly these machines will become extremely important and hopefully be the "work horse" of all units as they are intended!!

Piloting an assault or heavy should be what pilot's strive to attain not be handed to on a plate.

It's like watching everyone wanting to be a level 25 character in AD&D 20 years ago.

We can't all be power gamers!

Edited by AussieGiant, 20 August 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Twist and angles are good, but the main problem with meds (and lights) are very strict weight limits to play with. Still can't pack them to have reasonable speed AND punch at the same time.

Agility quirks not addressing this issue at all.

[Butane9000]

So I played a few matches in my Hunchback and other mediums. Honestly I really didn't notice a difference. But seriously, look elsewhere to make mechs better.

Also I did the math. The Hunchbacks engine increase gets them a whopping speed boost of about 10 KPh.

[Serapth]

I dropped in my Founders hunch and had a decent round ( 2 kills, 8 assists, 450ish damage ). That was over-acheiving for this mech unless I hung back and took AC20 shots on badly damaged mechs.

The big differences were the additional speed ( nearly 100 with speed tweak ) and the LBX AC10. To get the speed I dropped from AC20 to LBX and its a vastly improved weapon. The ability to actually run away if things get too rough is a big improvement for the survivability of this mech.

Try the same build, full armor, LBX10, 3ML, 270 STD engine. It's quicker, nimbler and still puts out reasonable damage.


It's not a great mech by any means, but its nowhere near as useless as it was.

[MuonNeutrino]

I was actually looking forward to this patch specifically because of these changes. Then I read the patch notes.

Seriously, these are *not* what medium mechs need. Pitch angle, whatever. It's nice, but minor, and it's not a buff in an area where they actually need help, Torso twist speed is completely irrelevant, the torsos already turn extremely fast once you've got your efficiencies up.

Mediums need *turn* speed and acceleration/deceleration increases, not twist speed buffs. The problem is that they have no *maneuverability* advantage over heavies. They need to be able to out-turn and out-maneuver them, and for that they need turn rate and accel/decel buffs.

Sorry, but this gets a thumbs down from me.

[Bront]

Played a few matches in Cent-AL, didn't notice any difference. Accelleration/Deceleration and turn radius needed slight adjustments, even if Lights ended up also benefiting from this (honestly, my Cent feels about as agile as my Commando, which is sad).

[AC]

Angle increases and twist speed do nothing. What really was needed was a bump to turn speed so that you can dodge a little better to make up for that lack of armor. Also a small bump to the climb angle to get up areas larger mechs couldn't would have been very welcome as well. Because sometimes you just need to cut and run in a light mech....

[MoonUnitBeta]

I'm noticing some wacky reticle action when zoomed in with my HBK-4G. those 6 little squares move at what the old speed was, but the + cross hair goes zooming off to the side.

Can you please sync them up? The camera follows the 6 squares in the middle, and doesn't follow the + cross hair. Or it can't keep up or something. i dunno. It's just messed up.

Zoom in to x1.5 or x3.0, move mouse quickly from side to side.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 20 August 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Wizywig]

Everyone keeps complaining that increased turn radius and speed is not enough...

When the Yen Lo Wang first came out, it was basically a centurion with a 280 engine and an AC20. It was GARBAGE!

Then they increased turso twist significantly and turso twist speed. Now the YLW is my favorite mech. Can aim super well, and runs real fast with that 300xl.

Turso twist can have a huge impact.

My biggest gripe with the hunchbacks was the sub-280 engine. I hate 275 caz that's just not the engines everyone bought befure (I have a 260xl, 280xl but no 275 because that was a pointless engine till now).But a 275 speed is much needed for the hunchback as it's low low speed means it is a very easy target. Nowdays when I see a hunchback I always target it first because I know it is packing and is too slow to dodge anything. The AC20 hunchie is just junk... get an ac20 blackjack and save yourself a headache.

Some boosts I wish hunchbacks had:

The shoulder mount should NOT cover 80% of the back armor. Maybe 40%, ideally 0%..
The shoulder mount should get extra armor slots, which the other shoulder loses (though the shoulder mount is bigger, it is also more armored then vs that spot gonna get blowd off)

[Thorqemada]

A first step - imho Mediums need to go 110kph for a healthy speed differentation to Heavys.

[Revorn]

Hi PGI,

You want more Mediums on the Field? Make them harder to kill. Speed isnt the only Key. Think about Scaling and Hitboxes. But i guess this is to hard or expensive for you to handle.

This Torsotwist Thing? Uhmm nice Try but not more. Cant take it as something serious. Sry.

Edited by Revorn, 20 August 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Wizywig]

Dude, just ran a 4p with xl275... Holy {Scrap} that mech is a murder box. Atlasi? No problem!

[hercules1981]

I agree with the many statements people have put in about accel and decel rates and turning rates but what I didn't c anyone write about surprisingly is the fact that u let the hunchy be as fast as a cent. Y does a mech that's 50 tons have to have a max engine of 275, no originality here at all. I mean look at the QuickDraw and dragon both 60 tons and both 360 max engines same with the jagger mechs and the cats both 315 max oh and I looked at your nice Phoenix thunderbolt mech, guess what 65 tons and max engine of 315 what the hell is wrong with u guys if u made the cent all the sudden be able to hold a 290 I wouldn't be writing this at all. QuickDraw and dragon one strike jagger and cat two strikes now the hunchy and cent three strikes, pgi change the dam engines caps to be different based on chassis not weight I can't be the only one that is getting pissed about this.

[Seleucus Ontuas]

Someone wanna explain to me why the smallest combat medium, the Blackjack, is now the slowest of the mediums? Seriously, you guys couldn't bump the engine sizes of the BJ-1, BJ-3, and the BJ-1DC to 255 and the engine size of the BJ-1X to 300?

[Gralzeim]

I've seen this mentioned in the past, but I still think it would potentially help the issues of "why take a medium when a heavy can go nearly as fast and carry almost twice the firepower and armor, and turn nearly as fast as well". Unlink engine rating with turn speed (and torso twist speed if they're currently linked, I'm not sure if they are off the top of my head).

This would mean each mech chassis/variant could have their turn speed adjusted and set independently. Maybe it's just personal opinion/bias, but I think it's crazy that a heavy can move as fast and turn as fast as a medium. Maybe not all heavies are set up like that, but it's possible, so people do it. And don't even get me started on how nimble Assaults can be, for their tonnage. But I'm going off topic here.

I do think that might help, if the only thing that engine rating determined (aside from internal heat sinks and extra heat sink slots) was maximum speed. I kinda doubt this would ever happen though, as the backlash could be tremendous.